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Old 18 February 2003, 02:27   #21
Overdoc
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Yes, sad but true, in the early ninetees, about '93, the PC took over also in the games section, which until then was lead by the Amiga. But '93 was the time when 3D games like Doom hit the market, and therefore also gamers bought PCs and left the Amiga
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Old 18 February 2003, 02:44   #22
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Doom did come out in 1993, but quite a few other good DOS games came out in 93 also:

7th Guest, The
Aces Over Europe
Day of the Tentacle
Falcon 3.0: MiG-29
Wing Commander: Privateer
Warlords II

To name a few

What you notice are alot of games that are released on cd and have alot of data, cut scenes etc. The games started to use up alot of memory and processing power which the standard Amiga never had (FPU also).
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Old 18 February 2003, 02:45   #23
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Marketing, Marketing, Marketing
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Old 18 February 2003, 02:54   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by Pyromania
Marketing, Marketing, Marketing
Marketing prevented the Amiga from being even more popular in the late 80's. Obsolete hardware is what killed it in the early 90's

You cant blame marketing for the bad game machine specs on the A1200 in the 93 market.

Faster cpu's in ZIF socket, FPU socket, 16 bit stereo, cheap 30 pin sim meory upgrades on the motherboard, and cheap cdrom upgrades would have went a long way in keeping the system current in the 90's.

I assume people will start complaining that all those options cost money, but how many people spent quite a few times what A1200 cost to get thier 386/486 PC? Back then PC's were very expensive compared to the 100% commodity hardware we have now.

The A1200 would have cost more with all those options, but people would have purchased them anyway, and the developers would have stayed.
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Old 18 February 2003, 03:19   #25
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Yeppers, my first 486 DX2/50 box was just under $2400 total. This was because I upgraded to 8MB of ram instead of the standard 4MB, purchase of a Soundblaster 16 ASP Multimedia kit, this was really bad, around $550 at the time. I also went with the multi-sync SVGA monitor which added to the cost and of course at the time a Hercules Vesa Local BUS card with either 2 or 4 MB of VRAM, very spendy too
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Old 18 February 2003, 04:03   #26
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Quote:
Originally posted by Unknown_K
Marketing prevented the Amiga from being even more popular in the late 80's. Obsolete hardware is what killed it in the early 90's

You cant blame marketing for the bad game machine specs on the A1200 in the 93 market.

Faster cpu's in ZIF socket, FPU socket, 16 bit stereo, cheap 30 pin sim meory upgrades on the motherboard, and cheap cdrom upgrades would have went a long way in keeping the system current in the 90's.

I assume people will start complaining that all those options cost money, but how many people spent quite a few times what A1200 cost to get thier 386/486 PC? Back then PC's were very expensive compared to the 100% commodity hardware we have now.

The A1200 would have cost more with all those options, but people would have purchased them anyway, and the developers would have stayed.
100% true Unknown_K, your right.
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Old 18 February 2003, 04:31   #27
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i think its a combination of all the reasons given...

as i see it..

----

PCs were marketed as Business machines (International Business machines), business users invested huge amounts of money in computers.

Amiga was marketed as a Jack-of-all-trades, master-of-none, gaming, creativity, but less importantly to Commodore, business.

----

PC hardware was developed by many manufacters, more competition can create a competitive market.

Amiga hardware was all "in-house", and Commodore were slow to release hardware addons (HDs, High Density Drives, Soundcards etc.. etc..) business users want it all in the box, not addons to stick to the side of your computer!!!

----

PC software was boring... your Wordperfect... your Lotus 1.2.3... business users tend to buy their software to remain legal.

Amiga software was cool (games etc..)... a 16 year dude, doesn't care were he gets his software, there is no one looking over his shoulder to make sure he owns the license to play "Defender of the Crown".... Piracy (despite what you say can kill a market)

----

what really shocked me at the age of 16, was when i went to college...

... i was chatting about computers to my trainer, when he asked "What computer do you have?"

my answer "An Amiga"

he said "huh huh.. yeah the Amiga... thats a Toy computer"

"Bastard" i thought..

that pretty much sums up the feeling towards Amiga computers, if of course your not an Amiga scener, i tried to argue about better sound compared to a 386, cheaper etc.. etc.., but it all came back to hard-drives... the only thing i had in defence to that was the "rock solid, gui based OS" ... (-wasn't DOS a bastard-)...

...i wonder if i met that trainer today and asked him "Is there still an active scene about 386s"... the answer, i know, would be "no, but check out what my 3.06Ghz P4 can do compared to your A1200"...

BASTARD...

like you all, i'm sure, i wish the Amiga was still in todays computer market... i don't think there is anything anyone could of done to prevent the Amiga going tits-up, i think you would have to go right back to the beginning and say"Nah you don't wanna do it like that... you wanna do it like this... killer business apps, aim at the business market... improve the hardware quickly etc.. etc.."

no single reason is the downfall of the Amiga...
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Old 18 February 2003, 04:45   #28
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hmmm.. another thing...

if you look at Apple computers compared to PCs... better hardware.. better OS... but still the PC dominates...

what do Apple and Commodore have incommon...

... in house hardware...

your average PC nut can upgrade a PC, back in the day you could not upgrade an Apple or an Amiga...

if a PC broke... you went out a replaced the dead part... if you ran out of memory... you go out and buy some more...

the PCs whole market is based on being unreliable or out-of-date before you get it home...

Apple and Commodore shot themselves in the foot by making good hardware!!!!
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Old 18 February 2003, 07:52   #29
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I remember buying an A500 20 meg hd back in 92/93 for about $550 Australian ($300 US). Months later I was getting very pissed off because you could buy a 300 or so meg hd for a 486 for the same amount or cheaper than the A500 20 meg hd.

Does anyone know where these ex-commodore dickheads are ? If so, I think we should all get together in a pub, drink the place dry and then pay these people a visit.
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Old 18 February 2003, 13:01   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by Djay
hmmm.. another thing...

if you look at Apple computers compared to PCs... better hardware.. better OS... but still the PC dominates...

what do Apple and Commodore have incommon...

... in house hardware...

your average PC nut can upgrade a PC, back in the day you could not upgrade an Apple or an Amiga...

if a PC broke... you went out a replaced the dead part... if you ran out of memory... you go out and buy some more...

the PCs whole market is based on being unreliable or out-of-date before you get it home...

Apple and Commodore shot themselves in the foot by making good hardware!!!!

Apple hasnt had faster computers or better hardware since the early 90's. All they use now is old PC teccchnology bundled with a slow G4 processor. I dont care what jobs says about the power of the g4, I know people with top of the line macs and pc's and the mac takes 3 times as long to do what the pc does with the same brand of software on both machines. This bullshit is sold onto the mass of mac users because they dont know any better and would jump the platform if they actually tried comparing current PC's to current powermacs. There are maybe 5 apps that even use altevec on the G4. OSX is bloatware even on the hardware it was specifically made to run on. Mac users get to pay at least 2 times what a PC user pays for the same video card with mac specific bios.

The mac platform had a better os up to and including windows 3.1, and a just as good OS in the windows 9x era. Windows 2k is just as stable as OSX, runs faster on much older hardware then osx, and runs legacy apps which osx completely got rid off. Not to mention there are drivers for just about any hardware made around the time of win2k, can that even remotely be said of osx?

And your comment about the average PC users being able to upgrade their machine easily is dead on. On the current mac replacing a motherboard for newer technology would be more expensive then just buying a new computer.
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Old 18 February 2003, 16:21   #31
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One example for the C= idiocy is the MIDI-Interface. Right, that one on the Atari ST, and the one they still hype this computer for. Midi on the Amiga would have been so cheap to implement, or at least sponsoring some small developer to have an official 50$ "A5xx Midi interface" expansion. At its time this would have been such a good move to gain a nice piece of the market.
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Old 18 February 2003, 16:36   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lockrobster
One example for the C= idiocy is the MIDI-Interface. Right, that one on the Atari ST, and the one they still hype this computer for. Midi on the Amiga would have been so cheap to implement, or at least sponsoring some small developer to have an official 50$ "A5xx Midi interface" expansion. At its time this would have been such a good move to gain a nice piece of the market.
Atari's were cheaper then amiga's So if people wanted to do the midi thing an atari being cheaper would have been better then an amiga + addon midi or a higher cost amiga with midi built in.

Also atari's had that cheap mono hi res monitor better suited to music then the amiga color monitor.

Atari was a cheap home computer while the amiga was a cheap home gaming machine (at least the entry level models)
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Old 18 February 2003, 20:10   #33
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mhz is not a true calculation of how fast a processor is...
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Old 18 February 2003, 20:56   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by Djay
mhz is not a true calculation of how fast a processor is...
Nope, and even 2 computers with the same processor and a different OS will feal and run different.
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Old 18 February 2003, 21:37   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by Unknown_K
Atari's were cheaper then amiga's So if people wanted to do the midi thing an atari being cheaper would have been better then an amiga + addon midi or a higher cost amiga with midi built in.

Also atari's had that cheap mono hi res monitor better suited to music then the amiga color monitor.

Atari was a cheap home computer while the amiga was a cheap home gaming machine (at least the entry level models)
Amiga was also a great low cost paintbox/video editing/CG system replacing custom systems costing much much more. Midi could be added to any Amiga for about $30. CDTV had it built in standard.
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Old 18 February 2003, 22:42   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by Unknown_K
Atari was a cheap home computer while the amiga was a cheap home gaming machine (at least the entry level models)
That is complete bullshit! The Atari a computer and the Amiga a game machine? Yeah, sure...
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Old 18 February 2003, 22:51   #37
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Additionally, "game machine" status isn't below the "home computer". Just because Atari games weren't as good as Amiga's doesn't make Atari a better system. I'm sure Unknown_K didn't mean anything else than that.

Anyway, al long as my amiga desktop feels ok, it's as advanced and modern as it's required to be.
 
Old 18 February 2003, 23:01   #38
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Big grin

Quote:
Originally posted by Pyromania
Amiga was also a great low cost paintbox/video editing/CG system replacing custom systems costing much much more. Midi could be added to any Amiga for about $30. CDTV had it built in standard.
A4000 was (or parhaps maybe even today) used by NASA. I don't know what it was used for.
 
Old 18 February 2003, 23:03   #39
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I'm trying to resist not to make a joke about amigas in nasa and the columbia incident
 
Old 18 February 2003, 23:17   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by Burseg
I'm trying to resist not to make a joke about amigas in nasa and the columbia incident
Yeah, but weigh their successes to their accidents and it's a more telling story...
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