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Old 27 April 2017, 12:26   #161
OlafSch
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Originally Posted by michaelz View Post
ABasiC is not really important, but as AmigaBasic was made by Microsoft that will be a no go for our community I think. If people wish, I'll definitely can try, but I think ABasiC is the easier road ATM (no commercial successor, nobody that has any commercial stake in it as far as I know of ATM).

I also contacted HiSoft and am waiting for an answer as we speak. That would enable quite a line of products we might save from extinction.
you got any response from HiSoft? I tried several times in the past without any success, not even a negative response so I finally gave up

regarding ABasic it is not needed, there is ACE Basic implementing it

description here:
http://www.users.on.net/~dbenn/docs/ace.html

source code here:
https://github.com/vidarh/ACE
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Old 27 April 2017, 12:59   #162
michaelz
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Originally Posted by OlafSch View Post
you got any response from HiSoft? I tried several times in the past without any success, not even a negative response so I finally gave up

regarding ABasic it is not needed, there is ACE Basic implementing it

description here:
http://www.users.on.net/~dbenn/docs/ace.html

source code here:
https://github.com/vidarh/ACE


I don't have a response yet from HiSoft. ABasiC only took about ten minutes up to now, so that's not much wasted. Thanks for the link to ACE.
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Old 27 April 2017, 14:06   #163
jonathan
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michaelz, olafsch I did not know about your attempts, I also recently asked HiSoft in a serious way about the possibilities to open up some of their old products to the retro community and what the eventual price would be. No answer.

Btw, I think ABasiC is interesting because of its historical value.

Last edited by jonathan; 27 April 2017 at 14:13.
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Old 27 April 2017, 14:33   #164
wawa
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michaelz, olafsch I did not know about your attempts, I also recently asked HiSoft in a serious way about the possibilities to open up some of their old products to the retro community and what the eventual price would be. No answer.

Btw, I think ABasiC is interesting because of its historical value.
if i was a former amiga coder or especially a company i d probably put a strict mail filter on to avoid being bothered with requests from the community every other day.
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Old 27 April 2017, 14:38   #165
jonathan
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if i was a former amiga coder or especially a company i d probably put a strict mail filter on to avoid being bothered with requests from the community every other day.
And If I was, I would either release the code as open source, or put a small bounty on it to release it as such.
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Old 27 April 2017, 16:51   #166
esc
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Originally Posted by grelbfarlk View Post
Someone pretty much already has, as in rewrote the whole thing for other cards, though technically I don't know what license applies. I don't know what uaegfx has to do with WarpOS, but if you have a PPC card that you can somehow mount in an Amiga let Hedeon know (or me as I will send him about 30 messages about it). Or if someone wants to build one the code is open for anyone to fork, though I think it would be better if they were in the main project.

What I wonder is can parts of P96 be rewritten to support WarpOS and would that provide any benefit, like run the GFX driver from the PPC side. Also WarpOS AHI drivers, I know Martin Blom worked on this and actually has some alphas out there of it, but it was never released to a stable or usable state. Sorry for the derail.


D'oh! I meant Warp3d.


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Old 27 April 2017, 21:25   #167
IridiumFX
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If you are gathering Amiga C Developers, and you are focusing on the OS first (and I mean, the Amiga OS, with capital Tick), then please count me in.
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Old 30 April 2017, 03:07   #168
grelbfarlk
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D'oh! I meant Warp3d.


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I agree some effort should go towards opening Warp3d.

But isn't Wazp3d mostly for UAE/uaegfx and has the additional benefit of using some HW acceleration of your host OS GPU?
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Old 30 April 2017, 03:37   #169
esc
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Yeah, but it would also be nice to be able to have a real bare-metal OS3 and OS4 combined machine that could use W3D with a radeon card. As of right now, the best bet is a voodoo card in OS3 and a radeon in OS4. This is a pain in the neck.
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Old 30 April 2017, 08:38   #170
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Just for the record, I contacted the following companies as of yet;
- Cloanto
- Haage & partner
- Microsoft
- Maxon
- HiSoft

Maxon and Microsoft where contacted today, HiSoft and Haage did not respond as of yet. I'll try them again when a week has passed.
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Old 30 April 2017, 13:56   #171
grelbfarlk
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Yeah, but it would also be nice to be able to have a real bare-metal OS3 and OS4 combined machine that could use W3D with a radeon card. As of right now, the best bet is a voodoo card in OS3 and a radeon in OS4. This is a pain in the neck.
I agree completely that Warp3D should have been done for Radeon 9200 in OS 3.9.

There are a few PCI Gfx cards you can still buy new of course drivers are still a problem. Maybe some day we'll get something even better than a Radeon 9200 on OS 3.9.
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Old 30 April 2017, 17:32   #172
matthey
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I agree completely that Warp3D should have been done for Radeon 9200 in OS 3.9.

There are a few PCI Gfx cards you can still buy new of course drivers are still a problem. Maybe some day we'll get something even better than a Radeon 9200 on OS 3.9.
Matthew@A-Eon was looking for someone to create a Radeon W3D driver for AmigaOS 3. Only developers with existing understanding and experience with this GPU architecture could do it in a reasonable amount of time and the pay would likely be low as only a few hundred 68k AmigaOS 3 users would buy it. A better solution may be to backport AmigaOS 4 drivers for more modern cards to AmigaOS 3 but that may require AmigaOS 3 development and perhaps new gfx card bridge hardware. It looks like Matthew has already created a new Amiga Technologies software company.

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/...=41785&forum=2

Jens is also working with Hyperion on some kind of unannounced project after purchasing P96 with Hyperion. Hyperion seems to have plenty of money ever since their close call with bankruptcy when A-Eon acquired several of their software products. Hmm. Let's wait 2 more weeks and see what happens.
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Old 30 April 2017, 19:18   #173
esc
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I like this optimism. Yeah, I'm pretty excited to see what they announce.


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Old 30 April 2017, 21:06   #174
michaelz
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Originally Posted by matthey View Post
It looks like Matthew has already created a new Amiga Technologies software company.

http://amigaworld.net/modules/newbb/...=41785&forum=2
I am afraid you're on the right track. I don't know what they are up to, but on Generation Amiga they had this (partial? It looks unfinished)
Press release.

They truly think they are the heritage of CBM if they start with the line "A week ago we shared with you our joy as we move towards the rebirth of the Amiga desktop platform."
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Old 01 May 2017, 07:01   #175
wXR
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Ah great, just what we need, more companies.

Wake me up when this round of disappointment is over and you guys are ready to demand community ownership and control of your software.
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Old 01 May 2017, 08:42   #176
michaelz
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Ah great, just what we need, more companies.

Wake me up when this round of disappointment is over and you guys are ready to demand community ownership and control of your software.


Yeah, it's not something I agree with either. I haven't seen much from A-Eon for the classic community and I don't think they're the best in our interests.
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Old 01 May 2017, 16:25   #177
Korodny
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but on Generation Amiga they had this (partial? It looks unfinished) Press release
Unless the news item was changed, this doesn't look like a press release? It's just a summary of the AmigaOne history from Generation Amiga, AFAICT.
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Old 01 May 2017, 21:02   #178
matthey
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Ah great, just what we need, more companies.

Wake me up when this round of disappointment is over and you guys are ready to demand community ownership and control of your software.
I hope your points have not been ignored. Certainly putting software under tight lock and key is not conducive to development or licensing in this day and age. Technology changes quickly and limiting access to this resource reduces development. The AmigaOS has fallen far enough behind modern that it needs as much development as possible and a policy with more open sources could allow faster development with less cost. You have also shown that there is investment money willing to be invested in the Amiga which has largely been ignored so far. Finally, poor PR and ignoring large parts of the Amiga community has soiled the reputations of several businesses which likely results in significant loss of sales and a reduced market size.

This is far from over too. The ship is still sinking. The businesses involved have made mistakes and there have been unsuccessful plans. There is a new plan in the works and it would probably be prudent to wait and see what it is. After all, we have already waited and wasted two decades for an Amiga rebirth so what is two more weeks?

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Originally Posted by michaelz View Post
Yeah, it's not something I agree with either. I haven't seen much from A-Eon for the classic community and I don't think they're the best in our interests.
A-Eon has the Prisma Megamix music card for the classic Amiga. Trevor and Matthew both own and use classic Amigas too. It may be that the classic Amiga has just been a low priority. Bringing back this market is more difficult as the existing hardware is old and slow but this is where I see the most potential. FPGA technology and mass production of affordable hardware I believe are the keys to the Amiga survival. Investment money and business partners are likely available to help under the right conditions. Perhaps we will see if A-Eon is getting any smarter soon.
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Old 02 May 2017, 16:04   #179
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It may be that the classic Amiga has just been a low priority. Bringing back this market is more difficult as the existing hardware is old and slow but this is where I see the most potential. FPGA technology and mass production of affordable hardware I believe are the keys to the Amiga survival. Investment money and business partners are likely available to help under the right conditions. Perhaps we will see if A-Eon is getting any smarter soon.
Based my talks with Matthew (not you, the A-EON one ) during Prisma driver development I see only one explanation: There is a lack of skilled developers in the classic area, who have the time or will to participate in Amiga development. My main job is not programming, so it took me more than three years to dive (back) deeply enough into C, Asm and AmigaOS to achieve anything useful - but I would never describe myself as a skilled developer.

Most of us have full-time jobs anyway and sacrificing spare time typically results in either asking for a lot of money or doing it for free.

Now what you get for free is jabbering in forums mostly, isn't it? Accompanied by phrases like "when I was a developer, I would...". Is there an acronym for "Shut up and learn"?
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Old 02 May 2017, 17:53   #180
matthey
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Based my talks with Matthew (not you, the A-EON one ) during Prisma driver development I see only one explanation: There is a lack of skilled developers in the classic area, who have the time or will to participate in Amiga development. My main job is not programming, so it took me more than three years to dive (back) deeply enough into C, Asm and AmigaOS to achieve anything useful - but I would never describe myself as a skilled developer.
The classic "68k" Amiga is not much different than other computers when programming in C. There are problems like lack of modern and maintained development tools and incompatibility with other AmigaOS (4, AROS, MorphOS) APIs. The latter could be improved with continued 68k AmigaOS development and backporting some of AmigaOS 4 if A-Eon was serious about the classic. I believe this would have a motivational effect on 68k development as well. The big game changer which would bring back 68k development and support would be affordable mass produced 68k hardware though (there are investors under the right conditions).

There are skilled Amiga developers who like or prefer the classic. For 68k AmigaOS development I would try to get Olaf Barthel, ThoR, Toni Wilen, Jason McMullan and Frank Wille. I probably left out some good developers but these guys have strong development skills and a deep understanding of parts of the AmigaOS. They would be a huge asset even if part time contributors. There are many developers who could be contributors and used in a support role.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbob42 View Post
Most of us have full-time jobs anyway and sacrificing spare time typically results in either asking for a lot of money or doing it for free.
Yes, skilled labor is expensive. There are ways to deal with this problem though. In the end, developers would probably have to make some sacrifices and accept some risk too. This is why it is important to have a complete game plan to bring the 68k Amiga back to profitability again. I certainly have holes in my developer skills but I surprise people and I'm innovative. I'm willing to sacrifice to bring the Amiga back. I just need commitment, a serious game plan (I have good ideas) and ethical reasonable people to work with.
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