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Old 22 April 2017, 19:57   #101
michaelz
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Originally Posted by LadyJane85 View Post
Not true: the CBM copyrights were auctioned by the United States Bankruptcy Court for the Southern District of New York.

One must be careful when throwing stones at sewage: you can't cancel copyrights like you can do with trademarks or patents. There is always an owner. Be careful what you wish for...


This sounds interesting. I'm surely going to check this lead, thank you.
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Old 22 April 2017, 21:04   #102
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The code leak of 2014/2015 was just partially as far as I know. Probably enough to build on, but not the full 'precisely as it was'. I don't know for sure, but I heard the rumours.

On the other hand, we also want the right to be able to look at it and distribute it. This is something that is quite impossible right now since there are several parties that have a hand in that.

On this moment I'm talking to Mike of Cloanto and am trying to start finding the right persons to talk to and Haage and Partners. I hope this could end up in releasing all the code up to version 3.9.

After that, Hyperion would be the most logical candidate, but they still have the biggest commercial interest on this moment I guess.
Good job. Keep it rolling.

The sourcecode leak contains the full code to build AmigaOS/Workbench v40.42, and then there is some work started for a future version. The leaked sources are an image from when CBM went bankrupt (1994).
That said, SetPatch is not included, but it is probably because of its nature (being a patch intended to fix the bugs that developers made when they already had the kickstart roms sent to production in a rush, and could not change them due to release schedules and/or budget).

There is a lot of work that has been done by former CBM, Escom, Amiga Inc developers that have fixed bugs and enhanced quite some more the OS, and that it is not included and was done post bankrupcy. That code is probably only in the hands of Olaf Barthel, Thomas Richter, Heinz Wrobel and a few others.
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Old 22 April 2017, 21:29   #103
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Not true: the CBM copyrights were auctioned by the United States Bankruptcy Court for the Southern District of New York.
And do we know for certain that the entity that was being bankrupted was the one that held the actual rights to this source?
C= was a hydra of a beast with a nightmare of international independent parts - are we certain that the part producing the source was not (partially?) transfering the rights to some other part?
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Old 22 April 2017, 21:45   #104
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And do we know for certain that the entity that was being bankrupted was the one that held the actual rights to this source?
C= was a hydra of a beast with a nightmare of international independent parts - are we certain that the part producing the source was not (partially?) transfering the rights to some other part?
If I read Amiga Documents you can't be so sure of everything from the moment Gateway sold it to Bill McEwen's Amiga Inc, but everything before that seems to be relative clear. Also, from a practical point of view, there is a limit to what we can do as a community. All we can do at a certain level, is try to verify as far as we can and have some genuine trust in people and companies we need to deal with. Otherwise we get in a Matrix-style discussion with layers in layers that we can never trust anybody, not even ourselves.
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Old 23 April 2017, 17:36   #105
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Did anyone else get a friendly visit to their inbox from Cloanto or was it just me ?
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Old 23 April 2017, 17:38   #106
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Did anyone else get a friendly visit to their inbox from Cloanto or was it just me ?
Any details you can share about this?
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Old 23 April 2017, 18:28   #107
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Did anyone else get a friendly visit to their inbox from Cloanto or was it just me ?


I'm in the dark on this one. Can you share more information?
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Old 23 April 2017, 18:43   #108
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I'm in the dark on this one. Can you share more information?
just dont get cought into some nda agreement.

@ladyjane

hyperion_mp? welcome
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Old 23 April 2017, 18:51   #109
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just dont get cought into some nda agreement.



@ladyjane



hyperion_mp? welcome


I wouldn't agree to an NDA unless there is no other way. I'm wondering if Lord Aga has something genuine or is just trolling for the fun of it
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Old 23 April 2017, 19:18   #110
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Hey, I'm a witty guy, but I ain't trolling

I guess it's not nice to expose private messages, but it was something like "why the hate, what did we do, and can we do something about it".

Now, I would have appreciated it if their representative had posted this in one of the threads, and took part in the discussion. That's where Q&As are supposed to take place. This way, doing it in private, seem like a mobster whispering to your ear: "nice family you have there". 100% polite

I am genuinely surprised no one else got a message from them. Perhaps I'm the only one who looks like a sap that can easily be bullied

EDIT:
Coincidentally, LadyJane appeared at the same time
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Old 23 April 2017, 19:48   #111
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Hey, I'm a witty guy, but I ain't trolling

I guess it's not nice to expose private messages, but it was something like "why the hate, what did we do, and can we do something about it".

Now, I would have appreciated it if their representative had posted this in one of the threads, and took part in the discussion. That's where Q&As are supposed to take place. This way, doing it in private, seem like a mobster whispering to your ear: "nice family you have there". 100% polite

I am genuinely surprised no one else got a message from them. Perhaps I'm the only one who looks like a sap that can easily be bullied

EDIT:
Coincidentally, LadyJane appeared at the same time


This sounds weird. I'm wondering what's going on, because this is not something discussed with Mike.
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Old 23 April 2017, 20:34   #112
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Indeed. Hyperion have the source and a license to modify but that isn't the same as ownership.


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Old 23 April 2017, 22:12   #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Aga View Post
Hey, I'm a witty guy, but I ain't trolling

I guess it's not nice to expose private messages, but it was something like "why the hate, what did we do, and can we do something about it".

Now, I would have appreciated it if their representative had posted this in one of the threads, and took part in the discussion. That's where Q&As are supposed to take place. This way, doing it in private, seem like a mobster whispering to your ear: "nice family you have there". 100% polite

I am genuinely surprised no one else got a message from them. Perhaps I'm the only one who looks like a sap that can easily be bullied

EDIT:
Coincidentally, LadyJane appeared at the same time
Don't share more than what feels comfortable, but hmmmm.. very weird way to communicate with a community. For example, Jens S. has a pretty good contact with the community through forums, why couldn't Cloanto, right?
It would be very interesting to get some official Cloanto person's opinion in these matters.
It would be of benefit to both parties if we agreed where the future of Amiga OS 3.x lies ;-)

Apart from risking being digitally beaten up by bitter and grumpy geeks, what do they have to lose?
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Old 24 April 2017, 15:30   #114
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This sounds weird. I'm wondering what's going on, because this is not something discussed with Mike.
The Amiga community never fails to deliver, when it comes to drama

I'd like to add my voice to the chorus directed to Cloanto or whoever holds the rights to AOS3.1/3.9 and the Kickstarts that if they wish to keep selling their products, the community needs the sources. We can't keep piling hacks on top of hacks just to make new hardware work. The devs need a real solution to the problem of making AOS grow and keep up with the times.

So yeah, a non-profit which holds all rights to the sources and offers them for free would be the best solution.

Thanks to everyone in this thread for pursuing this noble objective
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Old 24 April 2017, 16:59   #115
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Open-source doesn't have to be the end of commercial activity - look at Linux. RedHat made roughly a squillion dollars last year selling a collection of open source software.

Now, obviously, there's perhaps not quite as much money to be made in the Amiga world, but it goes to show that Cloanto and the like needn't be scared of open-sourcing hitting their bottom lines.
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Old 24 April 2017, 17:29   #116
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Open-source doesn't have to be the end of commercial activity - look at Linux. RedHat made roughly a squillion dollars last year selling a collection of open source software.

Now, obviously, there's perhaps not quite as much money to be made in the Amiga world, but it goes to show that Cloanto and the like needn't be scared of open-sourcing hitting their bottom lines.
Indeed! I would probably support them more if they was involved in this. I wouldn't be against them being the gatekeepers of the whole open source project either if they decided to be involved as such. Every project needs a leader after all, and I think they are ideally placed to hold that role.
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Old 24 April 2017, 18:59   #117
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Open-source doesn't have to be the end of commercial activity - look at Linux. RedHat made roughly a squillion dollars last year selling a collection of open source software.
But is Linux a success overall? It certainly is not on the desktop/laptop market with less than 1% of the market. Servers are just as likely to be BSD, some other Unix flavor or Windows. The biggest success if probably in mobile with Android where it gives slow performance but Android itself gives it what it needs which is some standardization (advantages mostly offset by too many ARM hardware variations to be efficient). All the Linux and CPU variations fragment the market and make Linux slow. The easier to use flavors of Linux are usually either bloated or less popular and impossible to download software for. I guess compared to the Amiga it is a success though. There are some businesses using it and some businesses profiting from it.

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Indeed! I would probably support them more if they was involved in this. I wouldn't be against them being the gatekeepers of the whole open source project either if they decided to be involved as such. Every project needs a leader after all, and I think they are ideally placed to hold that role.
Developing the AmigaOS could enhance Cloanto's products. There would be more demand for a new AmigaOS and kickstarts resulting in more sales. Kickstart ROMs could be sold for profit. More Amiga development and interest in general is almost certainly good for sales. Development is expensive because labor is expensive but easier to obtain sources (copyrights could be retained) and not requiring a NDA could reduce these costs by allowing more developers to contribute. There should be a development and standardization committee for decisions.
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Old 24 April 2017, 19:12   #118
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https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usag...rating_systems


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Old 24 April 2017, 19:20   #119
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But is Linux a success overall?
Lol, i'm not sure in what reality you are living.

Sure private desktops and laptops aren't terribly huge (theres quite large business setups though).

But things like servers? 'Other UNIX flavors'? You are essentially arse raped if you are still vendor locked to one nowadays, nobody does now setups on propietary UNIX.

And BSD 'just as likely' come on, theres a couple of holdouts which standardised on BSD 15 years ago, some specific cases due to BSD licensing (games consoles) and then it gets quiet reaaaaally quick.

At my work we run most of our infrastructure on top of various shapes and forms of Linux and we make more in a month then the whole post-commodore Amiga 'industry' has done in the last 25 years.

Try not to be silly, it makes you seem like a deluded madman holding on to glories long since past.

'CPU variations fragment the market and make Linux slow' slow!? oh fuck i'm not even getting into this :-/

success? a resounding one.
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Old 24 April 2017, 19:30   #120
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All of the SAS products I worked on were Linux or Solaris only on the server. With slowlaris getting edged out as customers upgraded. BSD is a non event really... mainly legacy. Docker has pushed the industry into using Linux for cloud.. rightly or wrongly.


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