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Old 21 April 2017, 21:40   #81
matthey
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On this moment I can't place the e-mails in verbatim here, but he really strikes me as someone with the communities best interest in mind. What I can mention is that he is willing to provide "free" beta-test licences to people who participated in this thread until now. This would probably involve giving back some technical feedback for those who participate, but I'm currently asking what strings would be attached. I don't mind some strings, but I want to have those strings clear before I start offering "free licences" just like that. Would people be interested in this (of course; depending on what the strings are)?
Free beta test license of what?
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Old 21 April 2017, 21:46   #82
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Free beta test license of what?


AmigaForever At least, I think. I'll make sure I know next post I do.

Last edited by michaelz; 21 April 2017 at 21:56.
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Old 21 April 2017, 21:56   #83
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AmigaForever
I don't want to use an old AmigaOS with an emulator. I want to use an updated AmigaOS on real hardware.
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Old 21 April 2017, 22:01   #84
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I don't want to use an old AmigaOS with an emulator. I want to use an updated AmigaOS on real hardware.
Noted. I'll take that along in my discussions as well.
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Old 21 April 2017, 22:41   #85
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Okay, I just send another 2 page e-mail to Mike Battilana and there genuinely seems to be a foothold.

In the first place, Mike mentioned bringing up the idea of getting a non-profit to "own" Amiga a few times earlier; [ Show youtube player ], AmiCast #11 and at the [ Show youtube player ].

On this moment I can't place the e-mails in verbatim here, but he really strikes me as someone with the communities best interest in mind. What I can mention is that he is willing to provide "free" beta-test licences to people who participated in this thread until now. This would probably involve giving back some technical feedback for those who participate, but I'm currently asking what strings would be attached. I don't mind some strings, but I want to have those strings clear before I start offering "free licences" just like that. Would people be interested in this (of course; depending on what the strings are)?
Now, this is getting really exciting. Good work so far!!
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Old 22 April 2017, 01:50   #86
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I'm sure AmigaForever is a great package, but what does it offer someone who can set up their own WinUAE image and has dozens of them already?
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Old 22 April 2017, 08:52   #87
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I'm sure AmigaForever is a great package, but what does it offer someone who can set up their own WinUAE image and has dozens of them already?


This is twofold I think, Mike said the following; 'Since we are developers first, and not lawyers, do you think this could be an opportunity to do a small beta test run, to also collect some technical feedback? Is that something you could/would like to curate with this group you are talking about, limited to those who already participated in the thread? If you would like to tell me how many have a Windows system and would like to give our latest work a try, I would be happy share some links and licenses. My "evil" motivation here is to show that we also do development work, and of course to see what the opinion is on technical merits.'.

We as a community are on this moment only interested in the source. If I read correctly between the lines; He is looking for something more then that, involvement. I think it is an fair trade, some commitment to his commercial purpose, in exchange for a step further in the talks. He is clearly motivated to make sure Amiga lives on and does want the community to be part of this preservation. I think we need to show some commitment and build some credibility towards him.
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Old 22 April 2017, 09:07   #88
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If someone is approaching Cloanto, it would be nice to know where all the source code bits for Amix (Amiga Unix) ended up. At least donating it to The Unix Heritage Society would be a good start. There can't be any commercial value in it, only historical value.
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Old 22 April 2017, 09:29   #89
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If someone is approaching Cloanto, it would be nice to know where all the source code bits for Amix (Amiga Unix) ended up. At least donating it to The Unix Heritage Society would be a good start. There can't be any commercial value in it, only historical value.


I will ask later on in the discussions I'm currently having. On this moment I don't want to over ask and I think we still have to show something from our side. From their perspective I guess they already showed some good will by sorting out at least a part of the legal work for the Amiga Sources and by being sincerely interested in the current discussion.
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Old 22 April 2017, 09:34   #90
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This is twofold I think, Mike said the following; 'Since we are developers first, and not lawyers, do you think this could be an opportunity to do a small beta test run, to also collect some technical feedback? Is that something you could/would like to curate with this group you are talking about, limited to those who already participated in the thread? If you would like to tell me how many have a Windows system and would like to give our latest work a try, I would be happy share some links and licenses. My "evil" motivation here is to show that we also do development work, and of course to see what the opinion is on technical merits.'.

We as a community are on this moment only interested in the source. If I read correctly between the lines; He is looking for something more then that, involvement. I think it is an fair trade, some commitment to his commercial purpose, in exchange for a step further in the talks. He is clearly motivated to make sure Amiga lives on and does want the community to be part of this preservation. I think we need to show some commitment and build some credibility towards him.
Sounds like you have made great progress.

It certainly can't hurt us for some of us to provide him some feedback on whatever it is he is working on if it helps move the discussions forward.

I'll volunteer.
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Old 22 April 2017, 10:32   #91
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Sounds like you have made great progress.



It certainly can't hurt us for some of us to provide him some feedback on whatever it is he is working on if it helps move the discussions forward.



I'll volunteer.


Thank you. Don't forget Mike from Cloanto is responsible for this progress as well.

Once I know a bit more on the strings attached (if there are any of course), I'll send those who are interested a PM. Probably I'll send a PM to those who did not respond at all as well, because they might have not read this offer.
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Old 22 April 2017, 11:23   #92
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@michaelz

I am also trying to "read between the lines" of what you quoted, but I'm afraid that I don't really understand the mixing of the AmigaForever (presumably) and the AmigaOS 3.1 discussions. What does this group beta testing have to do with the relicensing of AmigaOS 3.1? The way you wrote it makes it sounds like some kind of weird attempted distraction-bribe. Would you ask Mike to join us here please?
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Old 22 April 2017, 12:13   #93
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Would you ask Mike to join us here please?
No way, that's bound to end in tears. Let's let michaelz act as the middle man and see where it leads since he seems to be doing a great job with it.

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weird attempted distraction-bribe
And this is why it won't work. If that's what's happening, then it'll come out with the right questions but you need to tease it out, not cry foul immediately. Diplomacy!
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Old 22 April 2017, 12:31   #94
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Wouldn't it make more sense to contact Alinea rather than Cloanto? As I'm quite sure Cloanto don't have the OS3.9 source code. And we already have the OS3.1 source code.
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Old 22 April 2017, 13:57   #95
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@michaelz

I am also trying to "read between the lines" of what you quoted, but I'm afraid that I don't really understand the mixing of the AmigaForever (presumably) and the AmigaOS 3.1 discussions. What does this group beta testing have to do with the relicensing of AmigaOS 3.1? The way you wrote it makes it sounds like some kind of weird attempted distraction-bribe. Would you ask Mike to join us here please?


Don't forget the quote is just about 1/5th of the original e-mail. I won't post the full email in verbatim here, as I did explicitly asked if I could do so and Mike didn't respond to that. So don't take my shortened version to be the full truth, it's a very open and honest conversation with information shared with me that I can't share openly just like that.

I also gave Mike the link to this thread. He also told me he didn't have the time to read it, so I think if he would really be interested in joining these complex discussions and getting 5 or 6 different replies, he would have been here now. I will relay your request.

I also don't think it's a bribe. It's more of an opening to get a common understanding of each other and to build a better communication between Cloanto and the community.
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Old 22 April 2017, 16:15   #96
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@michaelz

If this Cloanto proposal pursues pushing AmigaOS forward, count me in. I use Mcrosoft Windows as requested.

However if this is just about the WinUAE customized front end code that Amiga Forever uses, I dont want anything to do with it.
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Old 22 April 2017, 16:27   #97
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@michaelz

Alright I leave you to it and we'll see how it goes. clebin fairly points out the possible negative ramifications of bringing him here, but I'm someone who just likes to get right to the point. You be the judge, if its the appropriate way to go.
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Old 22 April 2017, 19:16   #98
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Everybody, thank you for the trust. I greatly appreciate that and I'm really trying to get things done. I hope it won't take too long, but it's also a matter of building the trust needed on both sides.
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Old 22 April 2017, 19:24   #99
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Wouldn't it make more sense to contact Alinea rather than Cloanto? As I'm quite sure Cloanto don't have the OS3.9 source code. And we already have the OS3.1 source code.


The code leak of 2014/2015 was just partially as far as I know. Probably enough to build on, but not the full 'precisely as it was'. I don't know for sure, but I heard the rumours.

On the other hand, we also want the right to be able to look at it and distribute it. This is something that is quite impossible right now since there are several parties that have a hand in that.

On this moment I'm talking to Mike of Cloanto and am trying to start finding the right persons to talk to and Haage and Partners. I hope this could end up in releasing all the code up to version 3.9.

After that, Hyperion would be the most logical candidate, but they still have the biggest commercial interest on this moment I guess.
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Old 22 April 2017, 19:49   #100
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Mind you, proof of transfer of the copyrights from CBM to anyone else have never been presented in court.
Not true: the CBM copyrights were auctioned by the United States Bankruptcy Court for the Southern District of New York.

One must be careful when throwing stones at sewage: you can't cancel copyrights like you can do with trademarks or patents. There is always an owner. Be careful what you wish for...
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