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Old 17 March 2017, 12:50   #1
HAM6_Video
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Monkey Island 1 & 2 - Remastered for OCS / ECS

Having used a useful tool called HAM_Convert on Windows to optimise the OCS/ ECS 12-bit pallette for 32 colour images and introduce modern dithering, would it be possible to pull the backgrounds and assets from the VGA 256 colour editions of MI 1 & 2 and place them back into the Amiga editions with far better colour reduction and dithering?

If so, I'd be interested to see if remastered Amiga editions could be built with optimised graphics, higher quality music sampling and perhaps the re-introduction of music cues missing in the Amiga MI 2.
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Old 17 March 2017, 13:29   #2
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That sounds a good idea.

Although sorting out the background assets across MI 2's 12(?) disks could take some organising. Maybe easier to start on WHDLoad versions first? Also would more picture detail = larger file size so it might not now fit all on the disks. Depending on how crammed they were originally.

Loom could also benefit. Did PC versions of Zak & Indy 1 have many colours back then?
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Old 17 March 2017, 13:34   #3
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That sounds like a great idea, I wish you luck and hope you succeed!
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Old 17 March 2017, 15:00   #4
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With the right Amiga you should be able to play the PC versions in ScummVm
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Old 17 March 2017, 16:20   #5
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Loom could also benefit. Did PC versions of Zak & Indy 1 have many colours back then?
No, but there's the FM-Towns versions:
[ Show youtube player ]

[ Show youtube player ]

Both absolutely gorgeous.
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Old 18 March 2017, 02:40   #6
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The Mac versions run well in Shapeshifter and it isn't nearly as demanding as running in ScummVM, of course that does no good if you want to run in OCS/ECS as the OP wants.
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Old 18 March 2017, 13:00   #7
HAM6_Video
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Ultimately, the end goal is a WHDLoad version, playable on the original hardware with an EHB palette, reworked music or conversion of existing PC music into the Amiga format. If memory serves, the Amiga version used a sample translator that took the original PC music and converted it on the fly which resulted in the rather unique, panning stereo sound of the Amiga version of LeChuck's Revenge. MI1 used Amiga specific samples and as a result, sounds much more cohesive.
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Old 18 March 2017, 14:31   #8
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AFAIK the Amiga versions were redrawn by hand and look about as good as you can expect.
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Old 18 March 2017, 14:51   #9
talybont
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AFAIK the Amiga versions were redrawn by hand and look about as good as you can expect.
That can mean anything, can you elaborate? Is it good, bad, something in between?
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Old 18 March 2017, 18:36   #10
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I think they were converted from VGA and reduced to 32 colors (?). They are not redrawn, too much dithering.
But yes, they are very good
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Old 19 March 2017, 09:24   #11
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The do look converted down from VGA, but remain remarkably true to the originals despite the obvious lack of available colors.

The biggest problem with any remakes from the PC version is that the original VGA version is nowhere near perfect in terms of color usage and not at all optimal for another conversion. The best mileage would be gained if the original hand drawn graphics were available for rescanning or if the conversions were corrected manually afterwards.

Are the PC backgrounds available somewhere for downloading btw?

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Old 22 March 2017, 11:02   #12
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Originally Posted by HAM6_Video View Post
Having used a useful tool called HAM_Convert on Windows to optimise the OCS/ ECS 12-bit pallette for 32 colour images and introduce modern dithering, would it be possible to pull the backgrounds and assets from the VGA 256 colour editions of MI 1 & 2 and place them back into the Amiga editions with far better colour reduction and dithering?
You can try: https://people.eecs.berkeley.edu/~dc...loads/scolorq/ - IMHO one of the best if not best color quantization with open source - i can imagine more complex algorithm with better human visual system model and better adapted to Amiga uniqueness.
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Old 23 March 2017, 00:28   #13
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AFAIK the Amiga versions were redrawn by hand and look about as good as you can expect.
No they arent. They are the lazy converions. We could make a OCS version not so much worse from VGA. Heres your example
Attached Thumbnails
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Name:	Monkey_island_2_prison_output.png
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ID:	52587  

Last edited by Trachu; 23 March 2017 at 19:25.
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Old 23 March 2017, 17:45   #14
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Originally Posted by HAM6_Video View Post
Ultimately, the end goal is a WHDLoad version, playable on the original hardware with an EHB palette, reworked music or conversion of existing PC music into the Amiga format. If memory serves, the Amiga version used a sample translator that took the original PC music and converted it on the fly which resulted in the rather unique, panning stereo sound of the Amiga version of LeChuck's Revenge. MI1 used Amiga specific samples and as a result, sounds much more cohesive.
there is no need of music conversion
the music is better on the Amiga versions, is better even than MT32 music
the gfx yes are crap on the Amiga compared to VGA versions, an AGA version is 100% possible. will be idem to VGA
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Old 23 March 2017, 20:59   #15
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No they arent. They are the lazy converions. We could make a OCS version not so much worse from VGA. Heres your example
Depends on the scene and like I mentioned earlier, it would really help if there was better versions of the backgrounds available. Indexing and re-dithering an already poorly dithered VGA source image will never give optimal results.

Photoshop counts 58 colors used in the comparison image you posted, an EHB palette?
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Old 24 March 2017, 05:24   #16
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If its like the HD version i have on iOS, any improvement would be better than none at all.
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Old 24 March 2017, 09:27   #17
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there is a program out there i believe its called Lucashack or something. where you can open Scumm PC-games and check lfl-files. Even export images from the backgrounds etcetera. Could be useful?!
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Old 24 March 2017, 13:57   #18
Trachu
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Originally Posted by jizmo View Post
Depends on the scene and like I mentioned earlier, it would really help if there was better versions of the backgrounds available. Indexing and re-dithering an already poorly dithered VGA source image will never give optimal results.

Photoshop counts 58 colors used in the comparison image you posted, an EHB palette?
Well I can assure you that i woudl do much better with either 32c or EHB mode no matter is this original painitng or VGA version.
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Old 24 March 2017, 15:15   #19
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however original monkey island 2 for Amiga has 32 colors and thanks to color switching in game you have 40/55 colors
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Old 24 March 2017, 23:27   #20
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With the right Amiga you should be able to play the PC versions in ScummVm
Yes scummvm OCS/ECS already does an optermized real-time 256 colour to 64 conversion for you.

[ Show youtube player ]
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