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Old 09 February 2003, 23:28   #21
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Quote:
Originally posted by Drake1009
Unknown : I dont see holographic TV displays coming out anytime soon. The 3d headgear sucks, except for some million dollar black box gear the pentagon generals give to their kids for christmas presents.

I think holographic displays are within reach. I think I read they had constructed a 2 color one. Well that's been done a long time ago just not with moving images.
Hmm a 2 color non moving holographic display.. now that would kick ass for a 3d game environment

Well when the astronauts went to the moon and back at very high speeds I think they time travelled some very small fraction of a second, thats a long way from traveling back to the 1960's and screwing marilyn monroe. Same thing with that holographic display. Sometimes it takes alot of time and money to get a concept usable, let alone mass produced and inexpensive.
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Old 09 February 2003, 23:51   #22
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No I mean that they have a 2 color moving one.

non moving one has been around for a long time. It's all about just crossing beams of light. If you've got 2 laser markers and cross them you should get a red dot hanging in the air.

Fog or smoke would of course help that effect a lot.
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Old 10 February 2003, 04:56   #23
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Originally posted by Mr Creosote
Following the same logic, we'd have to stop talking about almost every game released in the 90s, because why play Lucas Arts adventures with 32 colours for example when there are 256 colour - VGA versions? Why play The Settlers on the Amiga when the PC version has a higher resolution? I, too, can't see any 'beauty' in CGA games, but I am aware I didn't grow up with them. Others did, so this is the 'real' version of the specific game to them.
Not true...I am talking about something that is the lowest version on the totem pole when multiple versions exist of a given game. I am not saying to dismiss EVERY version of a given game except for the one version considered to be the best. I am saying, why create all the hoopla over the very WORST version(s) of games, simply because it is the PC? The very same question I was asking PC users back then... Their answer (back then): because the PC is better since it has so many more business apps and networking and mainframes, etc. that the Amiga (a mere games machine) doesn't have. Made no sense then, makes no sense now.

As for the retro quality, just because someone was there in the past doesn't make it a sweet memory. You don't see previously homeless people waxing about their old days in the cardboard boxes in alleyways. Sometimes shite is just shite.
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Old 10 February 2003, 05:52   #24
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Twistin: Where is the difference? Take The Settlers. This game exists for Amiga and PC. The Amiga version is the worst one, that's for sure. Now "why create all the hoopla over it"? The answer is simple: why not? And it is the same with CGA games. And it is already the same with first-generation FPS. And it will be the same with more current games.

Personally, I absolutely agree with the reasoning you show here (I can't understand people praising CGA games, I can't understand people drooling over 3D shooters and I can't understand people raving about new games) - it is exactly the same things I always hear from arrogant PC users and also (in reference to the last paragraph) what I'm saying myself. I don't think however dismissing their point of view is a really good behaviour.
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Old 10 February 2003, 07:37   #25
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VR is poop. It was THE buzzword in the 90s, and it has been long forgotten. I don't see anyone wanting to invest more cash into VR.

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This is the Hypercube 98 software. The program shows tumbling four-dimensional hypercubes,
WTF? HOW do you show a 4 dimensional cube, when we can only see 3 dimensions? This is absolutely wrong ;P

Anyway, bitmapped 3D might be already retro. We'll see about polygonalized 3D. I dunno what's next, I feel like there are no really big advances in the display area (perhaps there are when the next gen user interface is created ). Is there any other way to depict stuff? The world we live in is in 3D, so how do you make that obsolete?

I suppose the way in which 3D is depicted, is what will become 'retro'. But 3D as a whole cannot be deprecated!

My two pence
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Old 10 February 2003, 07:53   #26
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Perhaps the next gen 3D games will eliminate the need for intentionally blurred areas in the vain attempt to create dimension. It just looks crap to me and the concept has been blown WAY out of context.
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Old 10 February 2003, 08:34   #27
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3d graphics may not be at the point of photorealism, but every year that passes by, it gets closer and closer. Older 3d games may look "cheesy" compared to the flashy stuff that's out now, but that doesn't mean people won't still appreciate them.
I'd say it's definate that 3d will become retro, as it's big right now. Everything retro basically has some sense of cheese to it. From music to movies to games. Sometimes I'll watch an old movie, listen to an old song, or even fire up an old miggy or console game and marvel at the fact that I actually used to be entertained by it.

When the next step in entertainment comes by, you'll probably see some community spring up shouting about how 3d is good, and the popular thing on the market is "mindless shit".
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Old 10 February 2003, 12:06   #28
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Quote:
Originally posted by Akira
VR is poop. It was THE buzzword in the 90s, and it has been long forgotten. I don't see anyone wanting to invest more cash into VR.

I heard not too long ago that Sony were looking into some kind of affordable home VR system for PS2, and if anyone can make a success of something....well.

I believe it will come round again at some point. When it first came it out was the latest thing and there was mega hype over it.
Sadly the technology then couldnt deliver the promise of films like Lawnmower Man and it was ridiculously expensive.
This will all change IMO, just give it a little time.

Personally Id be happy playing a VR version of Interceptor, which I think would be (relatively) affordable now, but as we know the mass market want bells n whistles more than substance so theres no point in releasing it yet.

I think the result eventually will be truly immersive VR games/movies/internet and watching anything on a flat 2D screen will be considered retro.
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Old 10 February 2003, 13:14   #29
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Personally Id be happy playing a VR version of Interceptor, which I think would be (relatively) affordable now, but as we know the mass market want bells n whistles more than substance so theres no point in releasing it yet.
You hit the nail on the head right here. The problem is that the market is too big. How's an artist supposed to be intimate with his audience in a stadium the size of a planet? All of the glory days we speak of are from eras when games were released for a cult portion of the population, so the intimacy was there. But now games are not made for individuals, but for (mere) masses. In order for gaming to go back to having substance again, it will have to be passionate people innovating for a smaller audience. All media is like this, really. And it's also why I feel 3D will not become retro, even though it will hoopla'd as such in 20 years. Not unlike disco...
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Old 10 February 2003, 13:30   #30
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The whole 3d revolution was caused by a small company called id software that used the shareware model (this was even before easy ordering over the internet). The hardware world started building equipment to support the new software (not the other way around). I think ID created a multi billion dollar 3d video card market all by themselves.

All it would take for something new to take off is for somebody to actually make a game that is new and inovative and use the shareware model. The problem is that new games take a long time to develope and need quite a few people to work on it.

BTW gaming and technology never stands still, everything will become retro sooner or later just give it time. Its like music, 80's groups were trashed in the 90's by grunge bands only to become retro and popular in the 2000's (lots of channels here play classic 80's music all weekend). Same with clothes etc. Whats old to one generation is new and cool to the next. I frequent a board called dosgames.com and quite a few members that are nuts for old dos games are barely teenagers not old enough to have been around during the 80's and 90's when dos games were popular.
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Old 10 February 2003, 15:53   #31
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Originally posted by Unknown_K
I frequent a board called dosgames.com and quite a few members that are nuts for old dos games are barely teenagers not old enough to have been around during the 80's and 90's when dos games were popular.
Yeah and they're probably playing them while listening to Necrophagia, Marilyn Manson, Blink 182 and gangsta rap. If old dos games turn them on, too, then it really doesn't speak much for the neXt degeneration.
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Old 10 February 2003, 19:11   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by th4t1guy
I'd say it's definate that 3d will become retro, as it's big right now.
Quote:
Originally posted by TwistinGhost
And it's also why I feel 3D will not become retro
Hmm... As I said, 3D cannot become retro, the way 3D is rendered is what becomes retro! I think there is a slight problem in the question formulated here, it got confusing. How do you deprecate 3D? With VR? If someone makes a VR kit, how will pictures in it be depicted? In 3D, of course.
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Old 10 February 2003, 20:54   #33
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Hmm... As I said, 3D cannot become retro, the way 3D is rendered is what becomes retro! I think there is a slight problem in the question formulated here, it got confusing. How do you deprecate 3D? With VR? If someone makes a VR kit, how will pictures in it be depicted? In 3D, of course.
True, but they aren't going to called it 3d. Some marketing wizard will think up some fancy new term to catch everyone's eye.

However, what about holograms? If the technology becomes available fir the right price, they won't call that 3d. It all really depends on is what's available 20 years or more down the road.
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Old 11 February 2003, 15:33   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by Twistin'Ghost
Not true...I am talking about something that is the lowest version on the totem pole when multiple versions exist of a given game. I am not saying to dismiss EVERY version of a given game except for the one version considered to be the best. I am saying, why create all the hoopla over the very WORST version(s) of games, simply because it is the PC? The very same question I was asking PC users back then... Their answer (back then): because the PC is better since it has so many more business apps and networking and mainframes, etc. that the Amiga (a mere games machine) doesn't have. Made no sense then, makes no sense now.

As for the retro quality, just because someone was there in the past doesn't make it a sweet memory. You don't see previously homeless people waxing about their old days in the cardboard boxes in alleyways. Sometimes shite is just shite.
@Twistin. This sorta goes to one of my annoyances where modern PC publications (& sad to say publishers),will talk about these retro games, & then completely neglect to mention its amiga origins, or as you say refer to its origins instead being on what were bleeping, crappy PC dos boxes, or 16 bit consoles.
Its like rewriting the gaming history.

Unfortunately the modern PC press "snobs" refuse to acknowledge the pre Doom/Wing Commander days of the bleeping CGA/EGA dos box past, or dismiss the Amiga as a "toy" & it "never" was capable of the feats of the mighty PC.
Of course they neglect to mention how many new O/S's M$ went through & Intel PC archiatecture & CPU designs to achieve that!
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Old 11 February 2003, 18:22   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by th4t1guy
True, but they aren't going to called it 3d. Some marketing wizard will think up some fancy new term to catch everyone's eye.

However, what about holograms? If the technology becomes available fir the right price, they won't call that 3d. It all really depends on is what's available 20 years or more down the road.
?!?!
Your eyes can't see anything but 3D, the holographs will BE 3D, I dunno what else will they call it? "Tangible Stereographic Spatial Representation"*?

The world you live in is four dimensional. Unless you make me split into a 5 or 6 or whatever dimensional world, all visual representations of anything be in 3D.



* copyrighted it just in case
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Old 11 February 2003, 18:43   #36
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The question is not wether it'll look 3D or not if it's holograms. The question is what name the marketers will come up with to convince people this isn't just the same stuff in new wrapping.
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Old 11 February 2003, 21:11   #37
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I thought the question was "Will 3D ever become retro?"?
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Old 11 February 2003, 21:58   #38
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I say when Akira likes the platform its definatly retro. So we can define retro as any game that has been on akira's hard disk at any point in time.
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Old 11 February 2003, 21:58   #39
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I thought the question was "Will 3D ever become retro?"?

Yes
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Old 11 February 2003, 23:14   #40
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I say when Akira likes the platform its definatly retro. So we can define retro as any game that has been on akira's hard disk at any point in time.
I say you read my posts again and try to understand them correctly, because you didn't get my point at all (I even agreed on stuff like Doom being retro, if not explicitly)
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