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Old 28 January 2017, 18:11   #21
Retro-Nerd
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That's normal. Windows HDMI only output 50, 59 and 60Hz. Don't know about the newer HDMI revisions.
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Old 28 January 2017, 19:10   #22
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I amended the title but it doesn't show up on the threads page.
Yeah it's always best to ask the question first. I've been wrong about stuff enough times. Otherwise the topic title comes up in google searches and confuses people.
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Old 28 January 2017, 22:41   #23
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One more question: Is Low Latency Vsync that kind of vsync that looks good at 50fps, but suddenly drops to 25fps when the graphics cannot be drawn in time in one frame?

I've seen this in PC FPS games, and whilst it looks nice, the mouse lag that results when the frame rate halves is ugly.
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Old 28 January 2017, 22:49   #24
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No, it reduces the known input lag. Input devices are more responsive.
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Old 29 January 2017, 01:39   #25
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I just checked my previous question with a game on WHDLoad called "Mercenary - Escape from Targ", and unfortunately I was right. It's a 3D wireframe exploration game and whilst a lot of the time the 3D is 50fps, if it slows down it can halve to 25fps, which is my worst fear. So what is my option? Do I have to put up with screen tearing?
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Old 29 January 2017, 01:46   #26
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You jump on conclusions again. The fluctuating frame rate in some games has nothing to do with the Vsync option in WinUAE. So no, you don't have to disable it. It won't solve your problems. Try the "Cache" tooltype for the WHDLoad version of Mercenary. If it won't help you have to live with it for now. Compare it with the disk version. If the latter is really faster/smoother you could ask on Mantis for a patch update.

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Old 29 January 2017, 01:53   #27
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You jump on conclusions again. The fluctuating frame rate in some games has nothing to do with the Vsync option in WinUAE. So no, you don't have to disable it. It won't solve your probleme. Try the "Cache" tooltype for the WHDLoad version of Mercenary. If it won't help you have to live with it. Compare it with the disk version. If the latter is faster you could ask on mantis for a patch update.
You're absolutely correct, I assume too much, it's a weakness of mine. I tried disabling "low latency vsync", but it made absolutely no difference.

I was just trying to encourage a situation in which a 3D routine would work within one frame, but force it into two or more frames by displaying more complex models, I figured that Mercenary on WHDLoad would be perfect for that. I guess I just don't understand WHDLoad fully, yet. I'll try your cache idea, but tomorrow, now.
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Old 29 January 2017, 02:21   #28
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Also play the ADF disk image (A500 config). If you think it runs better from disk ask here for a WHDLoad update. Never played the Amiga version.

http://mantis.whdload.de/main_page.php

Last edited by Retro-Nerd; 29 January 2017 at 02:27.
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Old 29 January 2017, 09:25   #29
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Also play the ADF disk image (A500 config). If you think it runs better from disk ask here for a WHDLoad update. Never played the Amiga version.
I ran the ADF on A500, and then on A1200, since my WHDLoad config is based on that (to allow for AGA games) and it had the same issue, but as you said, that's the game, and Mercenary was first released on A500 anyway, and the A1200 is faster.

I don't even know how to use the cache on WHDLoad.
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Old 29 January 2017, 12:28   #30
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Not all A500 3D/vector games benefits from a faster CPU. Set the "cache" tooltype in the game icon. mark -> mouse right -> icons -> informations and save.




You could also try to run the game in NTSC mode. Set NTSC in the game icon (but you need the NTSC monitor file in DEVS/MONITORS of your Workbench). Make sure Low Latency VS, 50/60Hz is enabled.

Last edited by Retro-Nerd; 29 January 2017 at 14:10.
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Old 29 January 2017, 17:11   #31
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I didn't notice any difference with "cache". Thanks, anyway.
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Old 29 January 2017, 17:28   #32
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NTSC mode though should be a bit faster. Anyway think we can close the issue now.
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Old 29 January 2017, 19:07   #33
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Yes, I think the FPS topic is done, until I think of something else.

I was next going to ask about how to best display interlace on a progressive screen, as I'm not sure I've got the optimum settings. I didn't want to start a new thread to do so.

My Interlaced Line Mode is "Double, Fields" but whilst it looks nice in static pictures, any movement in interlaced mode looks fuzzy. I've tried "Double, Frames" which either results in a better effect, or just as equally, looks worse, but that was back when my FPS was erratic. I suppose I ought to experiment.

I would like to know, however, what exactly "Double, Fields+" does.
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Old 29 January 2017, 19:53   #34
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Double, fields+ simulates the interlaced display of a real Amiga. It will flicker like a real Amiga's interlaced display does, but there should be no de-interlacing artifacts. Make sure you use vsync and integer scaling otherwise it can look a lot worse than a real Amiga would.

For some programs, the WinUAE option "Remove interlace artifacts" (in Display settings) works well to remove "combing" interlace artifacts (e.g. moving mouse pointer horizontally on Workbench).
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Old 29 January 2017, 20:21   #35
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Double, fields+ simulates the interlaced display of a real Amiga. It will flicker like a real Amiga's interlaced display does, but there should be no de-interlacing artifacts. Make sure you use vsync and integer scaling otherwise it can look a lot worse than a real Amiga would.

For some programs, the WinUAE option "Remove interlace artifacts" (in Display settings) works well to remove "combing" interlace artifacts (e.g. moving mouse pointer horizontally on Workbench).
Yeah, I tried it, it reminded me of why I moved to a progressive display in the first place. Interlace flicker was the BANE of many Amiga lovers, especially in Workbench, and I'm not keen to revisit those days, thanks. I'll stick with "Double, Fields", including the combing.
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Old 30 January 2017, 10:35   #36
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One more question: Is Low Latency Vsync that kind of vsync that looks good at 50fps, but suddenly drops to 25fps when the graphics cannot be drawn in time in one frame?
RetroNerd, I put on an older A500 demo that had 3D objects rotating on screen (there are many, many like that) and I noticed that it did what I describe above, with my new Display settings.

Question: Did real Amiga hardware do this? It's been decades since I've seen the real thing.
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Old 30 January 2017, 11:35   #37
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It's normal at a certain point. They are programmed for a A500 CPU. And often kinda locked to the original CPU clock i assume.

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Old 30 January 2017, 11:56   #38
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Traditional double buffering halves the update rate (not refresh rate!) if rendering takes more than 1 frame.

Note that emulator vsync or buffering mode has nothing to do with software running on emulated hardware and its use or lack of vsync or buffering.

Emulator vsync is is sort of like camera that periodically takes photos of some display device's screen. Without vsync camera capture rate and display update rate are not 100% synced (camera is synced to "real world", display device is synced to "emulated world"), sometimes one frame is not captured, sometimes same frame is captured twice. In vsync camera is synced to display's vsync rate.
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Old 31 January 2017, 01:19   #39
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I'm not sure I understand your detailed technical explanation, Toni, but now I come to think of it, I think that's how my A500 and A1200 behaved with such graphics. Seeing emulation of an A500 at a crisp, smooth 50fps is bringing back memories.

It may be unrelated, but when I was making A500 games with AMOS, I remember a feature of this programming language being "double buffering". It was necessary for games, as I recall.

Last edited by Foebane; 31 January 2017 at 04:11.
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