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Old 20 January 2017, 20:04   #1
Foebane
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Quick question about Massive by Skarla

Anyone know what the ideal config is for this demo? I remember running it on older versions of WinUAE and turning off JIT to stop the flicker, and it worked, although it was slightly slower. But now I'm running it on 3.4.0 and now when I turn JIT off it starts the same but quickly slows to a slideshow! I'm using a standard A4000-040 config, but I've found that selecting "cycle exact" with a CPU +400% setting seems to work OK.
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Old 21 January 2017, 10:05   #2
Foebane
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Here is the configuration I mentioned:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B5...1h4VWJSS1kwSEE

It still has JIT active in it, but I figure that throttling down the CPU to a reasonable speed other than "fastest possible" helps to cut down on the flicker that happens, whilst still remaining a high level of speed.
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Old 21 January 2017, 12:44   #3
amilo3438
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Yeah, "fastest possible" is too fast for many demos !

Check here -> http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=...&postcount=457

Maybe for mentioned demo the "best" settings would be with 220% ! (at least on my PC it works fine)

Edit:
It could work fine also with fastest possible too, but in that case you will have to adjust it to similar speed by playing with the speed slider and using some test program f.e. Sysinfo by comparing the Dhrystone value on both configurations. (also keep the Idle slider OFF in that case)

Note that such config will work fine only on a host PC where it was adjusted, as fastest possible settings depends on a host PC in comparison with approximate settings that dont.

Thus would be nice to have in fastest possible mode the possibility to choose constant speed of emulated cpu instruction/sec instead of % as it is currently.
(and request for this is already done -> http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=84956 , but chances that it will happen currently doesn't look very optimistic)

Last edited by amilo3438; 21 January 2017 at 13:54.
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Old 21 January 2017, 13:38   #4
Toni Wilen
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Too high CPU Idle setting?
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Old 21 January 2017, 14:00   #5
amilo3438
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I guess that the question referred to the topic opener !?

In my case, I am using it with cpu idle disabled.
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Old 21 January 2017, 17:06   #6
Foebane
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I'd rather not fiddle with CPU Idle.
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Old 21 January 2017, 17:11   #7
Foebane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amilo3438 View Post
Yeah, "fastest possible" is too fast for many demos !

Check here -> http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=...&postcount=457
Yes, I already saw that. Created a config that used the +200% setting and called it "Slower", but demos like "Beats by Loveboat" still flickered in places, so I deleted that config and I'm now choosing to manually set options in WinUAE for those demos that require settings that are not already part of my configs. The problem is, I'm in the middle of compiling said list, and it's huge (420 demos!)
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Old 21 January 2017, 17:29   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foebane View Post
Yes, I already saw that. Created a config that used the +200% setting and called it "Slower", but demos like "Beats by Loveboat" still flickered in places, so I deleted that config and I'm now choosing to manually set options in WinUAE for those demos that require settings that are not already part of my configs. The problem is, I'm in the middle of compiling said list, and it's huge (420 demos!)
Not all demos require 040 CPU, some works fine with 030 ! (f.e. Beats)
So I guess it will work fine also on A4000/030 config. if has similar speed to a real machine.

This was already discussed here -> http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=85148

So, load the same config and change the CPU to 030 and speed slider to 100%. (Works fine on my PC.)

Above 030 with 100% speed slider is something approx. to 030/50MHz.
As a real 040 CPU is approx. 4x faster than 030 at same frequency, according to that same configuration with 040 CPU with speed slider on 0% will run at same speed, what is approx. to 040/12.5MHz, but such speed doesn't not exist on a real machine. (the 040/25MHz is the 1st available)

Last edited by amilo3438; 21 January 2017 at 18:03.
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Old 21 January 2017, 18:30   #9
Foebane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amilo3438 View Post
Not all demos require 040 CPU, some works fine with 030 ! (f.e. Beats)
So I guess it will work fine also on A4000/030 config. if has similar speed to a real machine.
On the A4000, I have 030, 040 and 060 configs, all set to run at Fastest Possible, and for the most part I have no problems, I just have the three of them for compatibility's sake rather than speed (they all seem to run smoothly fast) and I wouldn't mind if they ran faster than originally intended.

Quote:
This was already discussed here -> http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=85148

So, load the same config and change the CPU to 030 and speed slider to 100%. (Works fine on my PC.)

Above 030 with 100% speed slider is something approx. to 030/50MHz.
As a real 040 CPU is approx. 4x faster than 030 at same frequency, according to that same configuration with 040 CPU with speed slider on 0% will run at same speed, what is approx. to 040/12.5MHz, but such speed doesn't not exist on a real machine. (the 040/25MHz is the 1st available)
Seems too slow for me: the opening animation is missing frames, and the framerate of the title animation and the first brown 3D blob effect is horrible. I think I found the right balance already, with 040 at +150% (thanks to SaphirJD)
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Old 21 January 2017, 18:38   #10
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I see, so you already solved the problem and don't need help anymore. (great)
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Old 21 January 2017, 18:51   #11
Foebane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amilo3438 View Post
I see, so you already solved the problem and don't need help anymore. (great)
Well, I solved the problem with Beats, but you recommend +220% for Massive? Is +400% too much? Well, I'll try it now, see if I'm setting it too high.

Your help is much appreciated, in any case.

EDIT: I was just wondering why Massive, with JIT turned off, would slow to a slideshow when I distinctly remember running it in an earlier version of WinUAE (I forget which version) and it was slower but steady.
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Old 21 January 2017, 19:14   #12
amilo3438
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Something strange is happening here, or we are not on the same frequencies or our PCs are not.

(All the time I talking about approx. values and you about fastest possible values.)

Everything I mentioned works fine on my PC, if it doesn't work on your PC can't help, sorry.
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Old 21 January 2017, 20:25   #13
Foebane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amilo3438 View Post
(All the time I talking about approx. values and you about fastest possible values.)
I've simply set things up to use modified versions of the Quickstart configs, and those for the A4000 are set to "fastest possible" - if a demo on Workbench runs at "fastest possible" with no problems, then that's fine. However, for those that glitch or flicker, then I use the Cycle-Exact CPU throttling to slow them down. It's as simple as that.
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Old 21 January 2017, 20:52   #14
amilo3438
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Totally pointless to use cycle-exact only to slow down emulation ! (= only an additional and unnecessary burden on the host CPU)

Ps.
Hmm, the problem is that the WinUAE QuickStart A3000/A4000 configs is set to "fastest possible" by default !? (IMHO, pretty stupid, as there now better solutions exists)
Maybe that was good for an old slow PC, but on modern PC it runs 1000x faster than on any a real A3000 or A4000, so I don't understand!?
And obviously, that is the main culprit for all problems that appears in some demos that is not made for so fast speeds.

Last edited by amilo3438; 21 January 2017 at 21:15.
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Old 21 January 2017, 21:13   #15
Foebane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amilo3438 View Post
Totally pointless to use cycle-exact only to slow down emulation ! (= only an additional and unnecessary burden on the host CPU)
Am I doing something wrong? I always thought that if I wanted to prevent flicker like I've been describing, then I have to go to CPU Emulation Speed, select "A500/A1200 or cycle exact", then adjust the CPU speed slider from there. Is that incorrect?
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Old 21 January 2017, 21:15   #16
Foebane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amilo3438 View Post
Hmm, the problem is that the WinUAE QuickStart A3000/A4000 configs is set to "fastest possible" by default !? (IMHO, pretty stupid, as there are now better solutions exists)
Maybe that was good for an old slow PC, but on modern PC it runs 1000x faster than on any a real A3000 or A4000, so I don't understand!?
And obviously, that is the main culprit for all problems that appears in some demos that is not made for so fast speeds.
Yes, I figured that "fastest possible" was when we were all still using Pentium processors, back in the Noughties, as slow as they were.

OMG, I've been using "legacy" settings and doing it all wrong for ages!
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Old 21 January 2017, 21:23   #17
amilo3438
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For A4000 with 040 is totally pointless to use cycle exact emulation!

It is way better to use JIT (direct or indirect) with approximate and playing with the speed slider. (The Sysinfo in this case report the slider on 100% as 040@25MHz.)
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Old 21 January 2017, 21:30   #18
Foebane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amilo3438 View Post
For A4000 with 040 is totally pointless to use cycle exact emulation!

It is way better to use JIT (direct or indirect) with approximate and playing with the speed slider. (The Sysinfo in this case report the slider on 100% as 040@25MHz.)
So is it "fastest possible" and then moving the CPU slider from the far right? There's only ten increments this time. What would be the best for Beats, again? Or am I still fixated on the wrong setting?
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Old 21 January 2017, 21:50   #19
amilo3438
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Try this config, works fine on my PC! (for Beats demo only)

If this fail, can't help. (the problem is then somewhere else)

EDIT: Or change in attached configuration to 68040 CPU for 2x faster! (= approx. to a real 040@25MHz)
In this case you can also change in JIT settings from Indirect to Direct! (if your PC is old as mine)

EDIT2: The attached config. is optimized in some settings, as it helps to my old PC to run it better then with the winuae default settings. Otherwise, it is important only the CPU page.
Attached Files
File Type: uae A4000_030_@50MHz_(Direct3D_optimized).uae (11.4 KB, 13 views)

Last edited by amilo3438; 21 January 2017 at 23:36.
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Old 21 January 2017, 22:29   #20
Foebane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amilo3438 View Post
Try this config, works fine on my PC!
Beats runs a bit slow on this config, I already tried 150% and it was better. Thanks, anyway.

Last edited by Foebane; 22 January 2017 at 10:33.
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