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Old 15 October 2016, 14:08   #121
wawa
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Originally Posted by modrobert View Post
Yes, it was news to me, in the sense that they are using the code for something besides developing AmigaOS 4.x, which was the deal as I remember it, but that must have changed.
i dont think there is anything much that changed. this is simply olsens initiative to deliver some immediate fixes, and they thought, why not, if they can cash on it and have their logo and copyright displayed on genuine amigas out there, just for the sake of it.

now, if you hope for backporting os4 to amiga (68k) then id ask you, what in this respect is an advantage of a system that takes already 80mb to boot to workbench? even considering the ppc binaries are usually 1.5-2 times bigger, it would be still 40 mb. not to talk about speed, you could probably check how the current mui fork is working on an actual amiga.

in comparison aros68k needs 6 mb to boot to wanderer, and it *is* working on an amiga, as of current.
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Old 15 October 2016, 14:53   #122
Olaf Barthel
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@Olaf

I get that problem. By the way, the Sakura-IT guys are using SVN + GIT together somehow, they wrote about it in the Open Source thread I started elsewhere. This is probably something worth looking at.
As far as I know it is possible to access a Git repository via subversion, as well as access a subversion repository via Git. However, if one were to use GitHub or GitLab, you are not free to choose which SCM should be "underneath the hood": it has to be Git.

So, while keeping the AmigaOS source code in a subversion repository seems to be possible, while at the same time accessing it through Git, it does not seem to be a good match. Part of what empowers Git users is in the workflow it allows, and to me it seems that this comes up short with Git access to a subversion repository.

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Also, are you aware of this project, MacRelix? http://www.macrelix.org/

This is a UNIX environment for classic MacOS, including 68K. It includes a (partial, but working) port of git. Source is of course available, maybe we could look at this as a solution.
This is the first time I read about this project. It looks like a closed source project, though. The files which are available for download seem to be MacBinary archives (in a custom format), containing the MacRelix software. I did not find any references to the source code.

Where should I look?
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Old 15 October 2016, 15:36   #123
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Originally Posted by wawa View Post
now, if you hope for backporting os4 to amiga (68k)
No thanks!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Olaf Barthel View Post
As far as I know it is possible to access a Git repository via subversion, as well as access a subversion repository via Git. However, if one were to use GitHub or GitLab, you are not free to choose which SCM should be "underneath the hood": it has to be Git.

So, while keeping the AmigaOS source code in a subversion repository seems to be possible, while at the same time accessing it through Git, it does not seem to be a good match. Part of what empowers Git users is in the workflow it allows, and to me it seems that this comes up short with Git access to a subversion repository.
Perhaps obvious, if it ever comes to that, is to store the whole source code (tags and all) in a "read only" public SVN repository for preservation and historic purposes, and push the latest "working" 3.1 version mix to GitHub and let it fork off from there, starting fresh.

Last edited by modrobert; 15 October 2016 at 15:47. Reason: more specific
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Old 15 October 2016, 15:49   #124
kolla
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Originally Posted by Olaf Barthel View Post
I'm groping for some sort of metaphor to illustrate what this entails. It's hard, but I'll try: imagine that development on the Linux kernel stopped in 1993 and did not resume until yesterday.
You mean like this?
http://www.386bsd.org
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Old 15 October 2016, 16:22   #125
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Originally Posted by Olaf Barthel View Post
This is the first time I read about this project. It looks like a closed source project, though. The files which are available for download seem to be MacBinary archives (in a custom format), containing the MacRelix software. I did not find any references to the source code.

Where should I look?
You ask Josh Juran apparently, https://github.com/jjuran
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Old 15 October 2016, 16:25   #126
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I'll certainly have egg on my face if the MacRelix source isn't available, but indeed I don't see it either. I'm almost positive that I saw it before, but I guess Josh himself will have to confirm whether or not I am also suffering hallucinations.
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Old 15 October 2016, 16:46   #127
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To successfully be served with a takedown request that I can challenge, I presumably need to host the sources in a DMCA-free country, via a host that won't automatically take action without consulting me. In other words, I need a host that will cooperate with my investigation.

I would appreciate some suggestions about this. A pirate-friendly host in Sweden or Iceland seems like a good starting point, but it should also not be seen as to have such a deaf ear to intellectual property that the notice won't even be sent.

Well that wasn't so difficult to find out the last times.

The Takedown (DMCA) notice issued to GitHub was done by Cloanto.
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Old 15 October 2016, 16:50   #128
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Originally Posted by Olaf Barthel View Post
This is the first time I read about this project. It looks like a closed source project, though. The files which are available for download seem to be MacBinary archives (in a custom format), containing the MacRelix software. I did not find any references to the source code.

Where should I look?
Its GPL'd : https://github.com/jjuran/metamage_1/tree/master/relix
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Old 15 October 2016, 16:56   #129
Locutus
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Originally Posted by kolla View Post
You mean like this?
http://www.386bsd.org
BSD 2.11 also has seen some late activity with RetroBSD which is supercute.

I started on a port of that to Amiga some years ago, one day when i have free time i should finish it :-)
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Old 15 October 2016, 18:20   #130
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OK, so Cloanto issued the takedown requests. What do we know about Cloanto? Who runs it, how many employees do they have, are they publicly traded, and do we know how they came into possession of full rights to AmigaOS in the first place? Are they the "root" owner of the IP?
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Old 15 October 2016, 19:24   #131
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OK, so Cloanto issued the takedown requests. What do we know about Cloanto? Who runs it, how many employees do they have, are they publicly traded, and do we know how they came into possession of full rights to AmigaOS in the first place? Are they the "root" owner of the IP?
You can Google a lot of this, but here's one important piece of the puzzle.
http://amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-2015-02-00027-EN.html

Skickat från min LG-H850 via Tapatalk
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Old 15 October 2016, 19:50   #132
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That is interesting info, surprised I missed that.

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Ownership of Amiga-related intellectual property became more fragmented in the last few years. As far as we know, this is the current list of parties owning parts of it:

Amiga Inc. owns the domain name amiga.com as well as all remaining Amiga-related trademarks (partial list, PDF). They do have a license from Cloanto for their activities on the BlackBerry platform, but no license for any other platforms.
So it initially seems that AI has no say.

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Hyperion Entertainment, recently declared bankrupt, has a license to modify and distribute AmigaOS 3.1, an exlusive license for the AmigaOS and AmigaOne trademarks (limited for use with AmigaOS 4 or higher) and a non-exclusive license for the BoingBall trademark (limited for use with AmigaOS 4 or higher). Hyperion's license can only be transferred to a third party with Amiga Inc.'s consent.
Interesting note here in light of the recent release: a non-exclusive license for the BoingBall trademark (limited for use with AmigaOS 4 or higher)

This isn't AOS4 or higher, but now has a boing ball.

Also, Hyperion's boing ball license can only be transferred to a third party with Amiga Inc.'s consent.

Quote:
Cloanto owns the Amiga Forever and Workbench trademarks and the copyrights to the Commodore/Amiga works as described above.
Yet Cloanto owns the copyrights to all the above described works?

So they couldn't legally open source it without the consent of Cloanto.

Surely the Cloanto copyright ownership doesn't extend to the AOS4 additions as well unless it's considered a derivative work like GPL in a way?
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Old 15 October 2016, 20:58   #133
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As everytime, here is some reading material:

https://sites.google.com/site/amigadocuments/
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Old 15 October 2016, 21:13   #134
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That seems to back up the previous link, that Cloanto seems to have the copyrights to at least through 3.1

Cloanto already makes money from open source, so hit them up with the proposal.

All they can say is "no" or "we don't have the ability".
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Old 15 October 2016, 21:30   #135
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The mere fact that somebody has a license doesn't mean that the party granting the license has any rights to it. There was a court settlement where all interested parties got some part of the loot. This also doesn't mean that any party did actually have any rights to AOS in the first place. Actually it seems to indicate the contrary as apparently none of the parties could win in a court suit. Somebody owning the rights should have been able to come out the courtroom as the sole winner...
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Old 15 October 2016, 21:36   #136
Heiroglyph
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I only see copyright assignments from Amiga Delaware to Cloanto in there.

Looking over it again, I don't see kickstart newer than 2.04 and it may only be the binaries for all we know.

Those unknown rom numbers don't seem to even be kickstart. The top one is the rom for a 1541 for example.
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Old 15 October 2016, 23:55   #137
utri007
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Just bought both of them. 17,91€. Today I used twice that much money to burger king.

I also boght Plipbox to my CDTV and composite mod kit to my Atari 2600.
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Old 16 October 2016, 00:38   #138
Ratte
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Originally Posted by Olaf Barthel View Post
No, it's the original Boing! ball, as produced by the 1986 demo
In 1997/1998 you wrote a "preview" (a simple exe-file) with a look-like kickscreen.
With your permission i used the vector-coordinates from this exe-file.
You told me, that you extracted them from the org. demo in 1986.
br
André

edit:
preview - 19.02.1998
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Old 16 October 2016, 03:41   #139
wXR
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@Locutus

That link is apparently the motherlode, thank you very much. Do you happen to know who put that site together? This person, it would seem, has a reasonable interest in understanding this topic and could be very useful here. Also, OMFG:

https://twitter.com/amigadocuments/s...30999738867712

EDIT: I see the contact address now and I will write to this person.

Last edited by wXR; 16 October 2016 at 03:54.
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Old 16 October 2016, 04:15   #140
kolla
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If you listen to the interview on episode 11 of Amicast, you get the impression that Cloanto actually _wants_ classic AmigaOS open sourced. The episode is quite long, I cannot be bothered to find exactly when in it that this is said, but it is an interrsting interview, so just listen to it all, http://amicast.ppa.pl
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