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Old 14 October 2016, 17:23   #61
OlafSch
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Originally Posted by modrobert View Post
The proper response to this "troll release" is filling the thread with links to the original 3.1 source code. The only reason I refrain is out of respect for the EAB site rules/admins.

I hope no EAB users are responsible for the DMCA filings against GitHub, that would really be despicable.
if reports are true then cloanto did it
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Old 14 October 2016, 17:28   #62
Thorham
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Buying this "update" is shooting ourselves on the foot. Repeatedly.
More like in the head with an M60.
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Old 14 October 2016, 18:09   #63
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How does spreading leaked sources even help us in the end?

We can't legally use code that's even based on it. Good luck finding hosts for it, much less being able to use it in the open.

It would have to be handled like illegal ROMs now and that gains us nothing, just a bunch of sites getting DMCA notices and maybe fines or lawsuits.

You're going to have an even worse time finding coders who will work under those circumstances.

So out of the available options, what's left?

Should we ask about open sourcing it? Absolutely, but don't expect an answer.
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Old 14 October 2016, 18:26   #64
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Originally Posted by Heiroglyph View Post
How does spreading leaked sources even help us in the end?

We can't legally use code that's even based on it. Good luck finding hosts for it, much less being able to use it in the open.

It would have to be handled like illegal ROMs now and that gains us nothing, just a bunch of sites getting DMCA notices and maybe fines or lawsuits.

You're going to have an even worse time finding coders who will work under those circumstances.

So out of the available options, what's left?

Should we ask about open sourcing it? Absolutely, but don't expect an answer.
Kickstarter to buy the IP? It should have been BSD licensed years ago. That would benefit all parties.
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Old 14 October 2016, 18:39   #65
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Kickstarter to buy the IP? It should have been BSD licensed years ago. That would benefit all parties.
If they show interest, I'm all in for a donation and I'll even dedicate a lot of time to improvements.

I'm just not convinced that any remotely reasonable amount of money would do the trick or that they have the rights to open source it.
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Old 14 October 2016, 18:39   #66
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That is what we must do, frank_b. But first we have to find out who the present owners are, in total. Can we do some detective work in here? I suppose there are at least a few members of this forum who actually know, can you guys speak up to give us the initial leads?
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Old 14 October 2016, 18:41   #67
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@Heiroglyph

There absolutely is a price, and we must find it. But first we must find out who, completely, owns the rights. We don't need the brand, we don't need the trademark. We just need all components of the OS.
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Old 14 October 2016, 18:44   #68
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@Heiroglyph

There absolutely is a price, and we must find it. But first we must find out who, completely, owns the rights. We don't need the brand, we don't need the trademark. We just need all components of the OS.
That's why I qualified my statement with "remotely reasonable amount of money".

If they say one BILLION dollars, hahahaha. Then that's effectively a no.

I'd love to see it go something like Poseidon did for AROS, but that requires them to be reasonable and have the rights to do it.

Last edited by Heiroglyph; 14 October 2016 at 18:50.
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Old 14 October 2016, 18:48   #69
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@Akira, I'm with you 100% on the "criminality" of hunting enthusiasts down. It's absolutely disgusting. But whether or not you agree with me about the value of open source for development, I hope you will agree with me that at least destroying the so-called intellectual property rights via that process, would be a good thing.

And yes, for fuck's sake, let's put rub pennies together and employ these developers. Again, see Patreon... But first things first, we need to liberate the OS so they have a legally comfortable base to work from. Now, do I need to hire an attorney and start from scratch, or will you guys who know about the legal situation speak up?
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Old 14 October 2016, 18:52   #70
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@Heiroglyph

Considering the asset's incredible depreciation over the last 15 years, I feel reasonably confident that the complete rights to AmigaOS can be had for less than $1M, minus names, trademarks, and Hyperion's OS4. Even five times that is an amount of money we can raise with the right campaign.
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Old 14 October 2016, 18:56   #71
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@Heiroglyph

Considering the asset's incredible depreciation over the last 15 years, I feel reasonably confident that the complete rights to AmigaOS can be had for less than $, minus names, trademarks, and Hyperion's OS4. Even five times that is an amount of money we can raise with the right campaign.
I don't think it will be so easy and I think by posting your amount you've artificially inflated the price. I'd remove that part of your comment like I did.
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Old 14 October 2016, 19:05   #72
OlafSch
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Originally Posted by Heiroglyph View Post
I don't think it will be so easy and I think by posting your amount you've artificially inflated the price. I'd remove that part of your comment like I did.
yes... and that amount is dream piping. We normally have big trouble to even get a couple of thousands
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Old 14 October 2016, 19:15   #73
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Commodore always had rainbows for their products because colour displays were a big thing in the 80s. Even the VIC20 had the rainbow.
Gosh, you're right! Now that you mention it, I remember where I saw those rainbows over and over again. Could be that Commodore's casework designer got hung up on the idea and never let go of it.

There used to be a time when just about every cover of a computer magazine published by a certain company in Germany (Markt & Technik), in the 1980'ies, seemed to have been knocked together by a designer awfully fond of using an airbrush. This got old so quickly that the 80'ies weren't even over by the time you were sick of it

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Of course, the wow factor has diminished over the decades...
Amen to that...
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Old 14 October 2016, 19:20   #74
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Nice If I can make a couple of suggestions?

1) Fix the font spacing on windows. There's a pixel gap at the bottom but not the top > 2.x This looked better in 1.x

2) Make the aspect of some of the gadgets dynamic based on the screen mode. That way they'd look nice in 640*512 and 640*200.

3) Add bblank support on the screen mode requestor for chipsets >= ECS.

4) swap the pens used for highlight. This would allow icons to look good in 1.x and 2.x
The most I can do right now is try and bookmark your posting. You are aware that you are basically asking for intuition.library to be modified? That's going to take guts.

Just about every RTG solution (Domino, Picasso II, EGS, Retina, CyberGraphX and Picasso96 -- I think that's the whole list) plastered intuition.library with patches which would depend upon certain register configurations and internal data structures to be just so that screens and windows would come out on a graphics card rather than use the built-in Amiga custom chip set.

Modifying intuition.library (and graphics.library, for that matter) and remaining compatible with those RTG solutions will be a tall order. Not necessarily impossible, but quite hard. You know you're in trouble when the changes to be made have to be side-effect and bug-compatible :-/
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Old 14 October 2016, 19:25   #75
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Originally Posted by wXR View Post
...
But first things first, we need to liberate the OS so they have a legally comfortable base to work from.
AROS is already liberated from all those vultures.

As I see it, amiga fanboys in the last decades who wanted the "second coming", kept on feeding those vultures, causing the situation we are in today.
Unfortunately, those same fanboys are STILL feeding them; they still want the second coming, so they literally DROOL over the Vampire (umteenth attempt to speculate ).
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Old 14 October 2016, 19:29   #76
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@Heiroglyph, I am saying nothing more than if it is less than $1M -- which it absolutely should be -- it can be done. Don't worry, until the other players are at the table, we are not bargaining.

@Olaf, I know your pessimism is somehow well-intentioned, but I honestly don't believe that anyone in this community has ever summoned the present-day powers of social media to do a true crowd-funding campaign for such a noble project. Whatever association you might be making I can guess was based on bounties in an extraordinarily limited context. To my earlier point about documentaries and rich interviewees, there are plenty of people with great fondness for the Amiga, going far beyond what is considered "the community".
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Old 14 October 2016, 19:32   #77
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AROS on 68k is a dead end. As I've said multiple times, they screwed up on day one by jumping to a whole new platform and rewriting the entire ecosystem. Now they keep praying that magic will happen and it will be both binary compatible and not slow as molasses on real Amiga hardware.

AROS has been a two decade waste of time and resources. It will eventually work on multi-GHz Intel machines, but it's useless for our existing systems.

The longer we rely on AROS to magically fix all their mismanagement, the fewer resources we have to write a proper replacement.
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Old 14 October 2016, 19:34   #78
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AROS on 68k is a dead end. As I've said multiple times, they screwed up on day one by jumping to a whole new platform and rewriting the entire ecosystem. Now they keep praying that magic will happen and it will be both binary compatible and not slow as molasses on real Amiga hardware.

AROS has been a two decade waste of time and resources. It will eventually work on multi-GHz Intel machines, but it's useless for our existing systems.

The longer we rely on AROS to magically fix all their mismanagement, the fewer resources we have to write a proper replacement.
who will write a proper replacement?

you?
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Old 14 October 2016, 19:38   #79
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who will write a proper replacement?

you?
Not by myself but I'll certainly join anyone willing.

Hell, given 21+ years that the AROS team has taken, I probably could have.

Just that 512k of ROM replacement would be a huge benefit.

In 21 years you only need to produce about 66 compiled bytes per day
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Old 14 October 2016, 19:38   #80
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You know, there is a certain irony in the fact that the subject of our arguments, according to all existing stories and documentation, was literally designed and built under near-impossible, last-minute conditions... And yet there is so much pessimism here.

Yes, you put your faith in corporations and got let down. It's really a shocker, isn't it? Yet I don't see what that has to do with anything. Let's carry on, one foot in front of the other, and get this done. I'm in agreement with all of you that AROS is the way forward, but as discussed, for a plethora of reasons including benefits to AROS itself, we need to liberate AmigaOS.

Again, who has a clear understanding of the intellectual property web of AmigaOS, please do speak up or even send me a private message with whatever details you know. I will compile this into a document that we can all look at and edit, and we will go forward from there.
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