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Old 14 October 2016, 15:21   #41
wXR
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AROS seems to lack highly motivated leadership, i.e. people with time and fire in their eyes. That said however, AROS would be given a tremendous boost by a full open AmigaOS. In fact, I can imagine it being very likely that the two projects would eventually merge.

First things first though, how about we get on with releasing the chains on AmigaOS? Would the rightsholders be willing to step forward and enter into a public discussion about this?
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Old 14 October 2016, 15:23   #42
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idrougge, you make a very good point. Imagine an Amiga entry experience that goes something like this...
Oh, if only! All the branch-offs would benefit from this as well and contribute to it. AmigaOS, MorphOS and AROS could be distributions using the same core, so any updates could be of benefit for all of them. Wishful thinking though.
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Old 14 October 2016, 15:25   #43
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It may be wishful thinking, but we can turn it into far more than that if we first of all recognize that it can actually be done. Honestly, what does it take? Bringing the rightsholders to the table, having a respectful conversation, exchanging terms, coming to an agreement, crowd-funding the needed money, appointing some administrators, and opening a GitHub account.

We could have this done in a week.
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Old 14 October 2016, 15:28   #44
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I would contribute with money on a kickstarter if one gets created.
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Old 14 October 2016, 15:30   #45
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I hate these type of threads but how can they charge for a Rom you physically own in Amiga 99% of WB is in the Rom - but its never going to be open source forget it.

Who cares we have Aros 68k someone spend 30mins putting a dsitro together for a start and move on from there - we have the 3.1 source anyway but Aros team say they wont use it fuck that just take what you want.
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Old 14 October 2016, 15:34   #46
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I would too, and I suspect many others would as well. And to those who believe that the community is too small to raise sufficient funds to liberate AmigaOS forever, consider that there have been 2 or 3 very high quality documentaries made lately. I suspect the producers of those films would be glad to spread the word to their audience, and even the people whom they interviewed -- some of whom are now very, very rich.

Interest in this platform and this "idea" is still beloved-on-high. Let's take advantage of that fact, for the good of all.
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Old 14 October 2016, 15:41   #47
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AROS seems to lack highly motivated leadership, i.e. people with time and fire in their eyes. That said however, AROS would be given a tremendous boost by a full open AmigaOS. In fact, I can imagine it being very likely that the two projects would eventually merge.

First things first though, how about we get on with releasing the chains on AmigaOS? Would the rightsholders be willing to step forward and enter into a public discussion about this?
I could say it the other way round... the amiga community lacks will to support Aros to motivate developers. When Vampire team annnounced using Aros for reasons there was a even hateful reaction by many. That was also seen by developers and is hardly motivating anyone.
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Old 14 October 2016, 15:42   #48
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Retro1234, I fundamentally share in your pirate attitude. It is how I feel as well, but some people have a soft spot for the so-called law and would like to keep their conscience clean. We have to bring those people along, or risk creating further divisions between those who will touch the "illegal code" and those who will not.

So, let's organize and try to liberate AmigaOS. Someone bought the rights, we can buy them also. As I said in another thread, this is not the 1980s. Between Kickstarter, Patreon, and GitHub, we have crazy powers of organizing both people and funds, right at our fingertips. It's initially just a matter of getting out of a certain frame of thinking, and then going step-by-step.

Who are the rightsholders right now? Who do we need to pay to gain sufficient rights over AmigaOS that we can relicense it, locking it free, forever? That's the first order of business. Can someone please paint a picture of the current, as-of-this-moment legal fiction surrounding this property?
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Old 14 October 2016, 15:53   #49
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I could say it the other way round... the amiga community lacks will to support Aros to motivate developers. When Vampire team annnounced using Aros for reasons there was a even hateful reaction by many. That was also seen by developers and is hardly motivating anyone.
I can perfectly understand that. AROS is not yet a fully compatible AmigaOS, and AmigaOS and Amiga software is what most, if not everyone, presumably wanted to run on their Vampire. But anyway Olaf, saying "the Amiga community lacks the will to support AROS to motivate developers" is dangling a chain of dependencies that completely obscures the truth of what was said. AROS is not a person, AROS is a project. Plug in different nouns and see, f.e. "the Mac community lacks the will to support macOS to motivate developers". As I said, AROS could definitely benefit from strong leadership with plenty of time and fire in their eyes. AmigaOS on GitHub would doubtless become a bridge to AROS that would allow such a leader to step forward and really carry this effort into some beautiful places.
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Old 14 October 2016, 15:54   #50
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-"such a leader"

+"such leadership"

(@mods, "Edit" is creating strange artifacts in my posts)
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Old 14 October 2016, 15:56   #51
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open sourcing is a pipe dream but try it

you have seen how hyperion and cloanto reacted when the long leaked amiga os sources became public. Nobody has a real interest in a free OS as long as some money can be made with it
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Old 14 October 2016, 16:10   #52
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@olaf

If behind Hyperion and Cloanto are rational people acting rationally (and if they are the only rightsholders), then it is just a matter of identifying a price and paying it. They can all calculate that easily, against the business they they are currently doing and their anticipation of future revenue. There can even be some agreement about a phase-out period of current business before the source release, to maintain a level of quality in customer relations.

Has anyone even asked them, or have we just accepted out the gate, that it is beyond our means?
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Old 14 October 2016, 16:21   #53
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@olaf <br />
<br />
If behind Hyperion and Cloanto are rational people acting rationally (and if they are the only rightsholders), then it is just a matter of identifying a price and paying it. They can all calculate that easily, against the business they they are currently doing and their anticipation of future revenue. There can even be some agreement about a phase-out period of current business before the source release, to maintain a level of quality in customer relations.<br />
<br />
Has anyone even asked them, or have we just accepted out the gate, that it is beyond our means?
<br />
<br />
made a business offer? I do not think so. I also doubt that it is possible to collect enough money to satisfy the different parties<br />
<br />
also whom do you want to make a offer? For me the legal situation looks rather complicated. Cloanto obviously has rights, also Hyperion. The ownership was at AmigaInc. (what some doubted). Does this one-man show still exist? And if not who owns it now?

Olaf B. mentioned Pentti Kouri estate as owner... from a quick search a finance investor. How did they get the ownership? And if true bad news because everything current community would collect is small money to them. Also how many would really contribute money today for open sourceing 3.1? I doubt enough

but as I wrote go on...
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Old 14 October 2016, 16:30   #54
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BTW the comparation with Mac and Aros developers is completely nonsense... the Mac developers do it for money, support is shown by buying Mac hardware or software. Aros developers get nothing, in other words zero EUR, Dollar or whatever currency. The only reward is that people use it and give feedback (positive preferred). I do not want to repeat all reactions from the past because I would only get angry again then. It destroyed much of my motivation and all illusions I had. I have no problem with it now. I have more time and different prorities now and the amiga community gets what it obviously wants (sorry for my sarcasm)
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Old 14 October 2016, 16:31   #55
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win-win from my side today
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Old 14 October 2016, 16:38   #56
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wXR, note that I said that we don't need any open source. We just need the Kickstart binary. I'm content to pay Olaf Barthel to update it (with substantial updates) instead of downloading something from Github. If that's the kind of experience you're after, go with AROS.
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Old 14 October 2016, 16:46   #57
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1) Fix the font spacing on windows. There's a pixel gap at the bottom but not the top > 2.x This looked better in 1.x
"Fix"? No, then you would ruin all ASCII art!

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I can appreciate the effort here, but every purchase of this justifies (in someone's mind) AmigaOS' continuing status as proprietary software.
Agreed, this is the biggest problem and it sucks that people think this further helps Amiga 68k development. It doesn't.

I much rather fling money to Olaf Barthel on a monthly basis for him to work on this than to Hyperion/Cloanto/Whoever the fuck for just thinking they own the goose of golden eggs (do they? Why is there SO much unwillingness to let this one go? Can't they do something better with their business?). Many know (especially wXR :P) that I am not 100% sure open sourcing is the solution to most problems and this is no exception, but I'd be happy to support with as much as I can, even if little, the work of Olaf Barthel, or similar folk, on a monthly basis, if it means the upgrade and continuation of OS3.x. It's fucking criminal that people like Don Adan are hunted down for open sourcing dos.library and things like that. Him, PeterK, Olaf B., Toni Wilen, and al other dedicated Amiga devs, THESE PEOPLE need our support, not Hyperion/Cloanto. Funnyly, these people usually give out their work for FREE, which speaks volumes about how WRONG it is to give money to Hyperion for changing a ROM and a Kickstart just to reflect they "own" the copyright (which is still unclear) and charge you for it! I mean, seriously people, did you just buy that? What is wrong with you?

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there seems to be a lot of people who feel a very strong need to pay for updated copyright strings and a picture. The kind of people who will ensure that we will never have a Kickstart you can just use for getting UAE up and running or that software authors feel that they can't ship their software on an autobooting floppy or CD.

Every time you pay for a pointless old Kickstart, you're dooming the Amiga to greater obscurity.
200% this, it is terrible. After all , the only reason why this keeps going, it's because of people that go out and buy a Cloanto pack of ROMs or this shit that just got released with no significant updates whatsoever.

After all, the Amiga community's worst enemy seems to be the Amiga community itself. Buying this "update" is shooting ourselves on the foot. Repeatedly.


OT:
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Petro was a glorified accounting clerk, not a visionary tech geek that knew everything about ancient Amiga history...
I don't know why his name appeared here, but it's good to remark that the dude had NOTHING to do with Amiga history besides being an employee there. With his insider knowledge he tracked down a lost surplus of A1200s. Is that all? Good job mate, now go back to retirement and stop signing computers like if you were instrumental to their development and a rock star
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Old 14 October 2016, 17:06   #58
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I think Aros 68k has good compatibility but im not going to be the one spending a few hours testing everything and makeing a distro why should I.

If you think wasting your time on this rubbish or looking at the 3.1 source is piracy then ha ha.
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Old 14 October 2016, 17:14   #59
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I understand that open source would put control back in the hands of the community and that it's preferable, but I'm trying to be pragmatic about it.

It's clear that they will not open source this code, assuming they even have the ability, because they keep pumping money into keeping PPC on life support and that source code is their one and only asset that keeps them around.

This is a company that has been putting development time and money into PPC and inexplicably ignoring 68k, a market they don't even have to grow, just release product for.

That's why I gave them my $20, to show them that if they make something for 68k, they may get something in return.

They already have source code that could benefit us if it was adapted to 68k.

I'd rather have a closed source OS update than nothing at all.
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Old 14 October 2016, 17:16   #60
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The proper response to this "troll release" is filling the thread with links to the original 3.1 source code. The only reason I refrain is out of respect for the EAB site rules/admins.

I hope no EAB users are responsible for the DMCA filings against GitHub, that would really be despicable.
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