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Old 15 October 2016, 15:07   #21
JZon
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This program requires a math coprocessor

Morning.

Ended up installing ImageFX3. (thought maybe it was going to add something or enable something to start Aladdin 4D) It actually asked to install for a 68040 processor! (even floating point 68040!) ImageFX3 works, Aladdin still not. (I didn't know Nova made ImageFX too)

Got a hurricane this past week, I made some extra money for a new computer battery I've been wanting.

Which Amiga companies deserve the money? Just based on my brief re entry into Amiga, the only person (besides yourself) I think should get a $30 check would be Toni Wilen. I bought my first pc in 1987 (A500WB1.3), then in college, my professor gave me his copy of DP4 with the latest WB version at the time. Then, around the mid 00's I ended up buying an actual Amigakit computer (A1200 oldstock I think). (OS 3.5 or 3.9, not sure) Then, for reasons beyond my control, I moved back from Hawaii and my Aunt may or may not have the computer today.

It's funny how reality works. I'm very particular on who should get the money. I legitimately own 3.5 and previous, but 3.9 and beyond need to be addressed for today. (And I think this is why I'm having trouble.)

Does WinUAE support Amiga os 4.1 (52.2)? Maybe I buy this os now? Maybe it makes Aladdin 4D work with 68040?

The Aros rom is twice the size of normal roms. It also provides mmu. But, Aladdin 4D still doesn't boot using Aros 68040 on WinUAE.

Who should get the money for 3.9? 4.1?

Thank you vey much! Brother Jzon
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Old 15 October 2016, 16:21   #22
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i exchanged my first amiga (a500) for a c64 floppy drive, when i bought my second amiga (a1200) - i think the a500 was then used to get some spare parts from it

if you think about donation - for sure toni wilen. on winuae.net there is a donate paypal button. that is the right person who deserves that

about Aladdin4D, maybe there is something wrong with version 5.1.
on the ftp you still can find version 5.0. maybe this one does work better for you.

the aros rom is as good as it's possible. but still in development and so not 100% compatible.
so it is adviced to use the standard 3.1 rom.

here is a good guide on how to install Amiga OS 4.1 classic on winuae.
since 3.9 is more or less the same comapred to 3.1 - with 4.1 you would get something new. so I would go the 4.1 way.
here a 4.1 install guide for FS-UAE - if you skip the emulator specific parts, it might be also of good help.

since 4.1 is focused on ppc architecture, which winuae now emulates too, it wont help that much with aladdin4d i guess.
must be something simple, we dont found out yet :/

Last edited by emufan; 15 October 2016 at 16:49.
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Old 15 October 2016, 17:37   #23
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C64!

Yes! C64! That was my actual first computer from Santa. I had a datacassette with JumpMan! Great times. (back when a joystick was a joystick)

When I left off with Amiga500 I was playing Hybris. (which by the way, when I put it in the floppy in WinUAE, the main title screen music didn't come on. I wonder why? That soundtrack was awesome!)

I decided to run with a wb3.1 setup. My mhz went to 187! Boots faster too.

Then while I was looking in my Amiga foler(s) (that I've accumulated over the years) I found an lha with HSMathLibs_040 on it. Not sure, I was about to unpack it when I ran into a new problem. The resources.library failed to load AmiDock. So now, I can't even unpack the lha.

So, I'm going to go with the 3.1 setup. I go to install Aladdin 4D again and I get can't open installer tool.

Could this version of 3.9 I found (free) online be corrupt?

I visited Amiga Forever and saw 3.X versions. But I don't know which 3.X versions that refers to.

I'm about to check out your recommend links above. Thank you. Thank you.

What if I want to start with a 3.1 setup, upgrade to 3.5 and finally 3.9? Is that 3.X?

Thank you very much! Brother Jzon
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Old 15 October 2016, 18:27   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JZon View Post
Yes! C64! That was my actual first computer from Santa. I had a datacassette with JumpMan! Great times. (back when a joystick was a joystick)

When I left off with Amiga500 I was playing Hybris. (which by the way, when I put it in the floppy in WinUAE, the main title screen music didn't come on. I wonder why? That soundtrack was awesome!)
c64 with datasette was my very first computer too - sold it later to get some money for the a500 - I still enjoy playing old games, wizball, commando, wizzard of wor with c64 emulators

about hybris, just try on those old games Quickstart -> A500 -> kickstart 1.3 / 512kb or 1MB chip ram, without any fast ram.

Quote:
I decided to run with a wb3.1 setup. My mhz went to 187! Boots faster too.
these are values i get when running emulation without JIT.
which cpu you have in your peecee?


Quote:
Then while I was looking in my Amiga foler(s) (that I've accumulated over the years) I found an lha with HSMathLibs_040 on it. Not sure, I was about to unpack it when I ran into a new problem. The resources.library failed to load AmiDock. So now, I can't even unpack the lha.


So, I'm going to go with the 3.1 setup. I go to install Aladdin 4D again and I get can't open installer tool.
hsmathlibs are a good addon, but they wont boost the emulation as much as a working JIT will do.


not sure about the new failure of lha/resource.lib.


but if there is c:lha, you may still use lha from the shell/cli:
for example, you have the test.lha in ram: in the shell you type:


cd ram:
lha x test.lha


would extract the test lha, to ram:


i was rarely using 3.5 or 3.9 - i'm stuck with some 3.1 setup, using AmigaSys,
which comes with many addons, so it has the functionality of 3.9.
now a bit outdated but still ok, while there are other packages like that,
to boost a plain 3.1 system.
you could, if you want, try to make another config and install this AmigaSys thing, you just need to 3.1 or 3.0 install disk,
the installer of AmigaSys will ask you for them, while it does install.


Quote:

Could this version of 3.9 I found (free) online be corrupt?

I visited Amiga Forever and saw 3.X versions. But I don't know which 3.X versions that refers to.
if the 3.9 installed without error, it should be fine.

these 3.x at Cloanto/AmigaForever refers to an updated rom ( upgraded 3.1),
which has removed the 4gb hdd limitation and some minor fixes, but noone really need 3.x from cloanto.


Quote:
I'm about to check out your recommend links above. Thank you. Thank you.

What if I want to start with a 3.1 setup, upgrade to 3.5 and finally 3.9? Is that 3.X?

Thank you very much! Brother Jzon
as mentioned above, give this AmigaSys package a chance, it does support 3.9 aswell,
so it might be worth a look. i guess i was using this install package for winuae.
a similiar package is ClassicWb instead of AmigaSys.

Last edited by emufan; 15 October 2016 at 19:54.
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Old 15 October 2016, 20:33   #25
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Quote:
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Aladdin 4D wants to work optimally with a 68040 processor. I've tried all possible combinations. 68020 and 68030 are stable. I can't get 68040 working.
Optimally working with a 68040 only applies to real Amiga hardware, not WinUAE. You don't need to worry about that, unless you enjoy figuring out how to properly emulate a 68040 system (and installing 68040.library etc.).

In fact, running in WinUAE Aladdin 4D will probably work faster with emulated 68020/68030 + 68881/68882 than a 68040.

On real hardware, a 68040 is much faster than a 68020/030. However the on-chip FPU (math coprocessor) of the 68040 doesn't support all instructions that the 68881/68882 do. (The 68881/68882 is a separate chip installed on some 68020/030 machines.)

Because of that, 68040.library contains code to emulate the "missing" FPU instructions. But that emulation isn't ideal because it's quite slow. Some Amiga programs (maybe Aladdin 4D?) come with a version compiled for 68040 CPUs which only uses FPU instructions that the 68040 supports. On a real 68040 Amiga that's faster than the 68040.library emulation.

In WinUAE though, non-FPU emulation speed is more or less the same whether you're emulating 68020, 030 or 040. Since all FPU instructions are emulated there's no speed advantage to using a built-for-68040 version of a program vs the 68020/030/881/882 one. In fact the 881/882 one could be faster.
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Old 16 October 2016, 01:20   #26
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Masters of Reality

Indeed.

That notion had been kicking around in the back of my mind. Dang Amiga was cutting edge to the point it can't be replicated. (However, 800+ mhz is nothing to dismiss) ((Interesting new hybrid as a result))

Good to know. Good to know.

I went with the 3.5 upgrade. It's asking to install internet, CD0, & ppc support. After the main install I showed 105 mhz. After CD0 install, it brought it down to 95 mhz. I don't really need internet support. Just leaves ppc. This almost sounds to be too much trouble worth following, as emulating another hardware platform would also be entailed.

Has anyone benchmarked this?

Went from 3.9 to 3.5, now I'm going to setup a 3.1 and do my own benchmark tests and report back. I always wanted an A4000T. It has an AT form factor. Does it emulate faster than say, an A1200 or 3000?

Thank you very much! Brother Jzon
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Old 16 October 2016, 03:22   #27
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Lol

Want to see something funny! LOL

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I had been wondering why there was another Aladdin 4D startup icon labeled, "Aladdin4D_040"! LOL Talk about missing something simple. Dang.

So yes, this is solved, it's working. Might need help getting all 3 versions running for benchmarking mhz to an HP2000 laptop. (3.9 can't open resources.library for AmiDock and sometimes trash, actually it had been off and on for trash, maybe it oscillates back after so many tries ((Or start from scratch)) and 3.1 is having problems with tools installer for Aladdin Install)

OK. Going back in.. Standby.. .. ..
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Old 16 October 2016, 05:30   #28
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BoingBags!

Just did tests on all 3 versions..

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Getting good upper 120's to 130's mhz.

It wasn't until I installed the Boing Bags 1 to 4 (as seen on previous posts), when the mhz came down to 35 or so. Also, the guru meditation (which I never had a guru meditation that didn't stop) started after the boing bag(s) install.

Are the Boing Bags going to do anything extra in regards to Aladdin 4D?

Thank you very much! Brother Jzon
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Old 16 October 2016, 05:56   #29
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Avoid any Boingbag past 2. Only the first two were official updates.
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Old 16 October 2016, 17:11   #30
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I don't think you'll see much or any improvement in performance just after installing Boing Bags/updates. And the clock speed figures shown by WhichAmiga or another Amiga benchmark program don't necessarily reflect the performance of the emulated machine.

If you attach the WinUAE config file you're using I can take a look at it to see if its performance could be improved somehow by adjusting WinUAE settings.
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Old 16 October 2016, 19:11   #31
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here is the latest config JZon posted - there was also the speed/JIt issue, i could not explain it's low values of whichamiga .

JZon: what cpu you are using in your PC?
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Old 16 October 2016, 19:55   #32
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Amiga Team!

Wow! Good looking out.

Thank you. Thank you.

Here is the config I chose for all versions..

A4000 WB3.1.uae

A4000 WB3.5.uae

A4000 WB3.9.uae

(I think they are all the same..)

Here is the technical specs on my cpu..

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Judging from this pc (HP2000/Win8.0), I'm not sure if there is any acceleration available. I think ReadyBoost got taken out from Win7 to Win8, I can set priority (I think) possibly move WinUAE up the list (never tried), and I think I have some RAM modification apps. I left them out on this latest clean Win8 install as the things I was reading online seemed to suggest it's already optimized. (Aladdin 4D wants real memory. ((Not virtual)) It said) Not sure, maybe the pagefile size I'm using is a stock Win8 amount. (Haven't gone there either on latest install)

Was the A4000T(ower) ever emulated? I think, if I'm not mistaken, it would require it's special own individualized rom. (Ya'll don't have to answer that) It's kind of a premature question as I haven't looked at the differences with A4K and A4KT's.

Thank you very much! Brother Jzon
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Old 16 October 2016, 20:07   #33
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3rd Party Observation.

Just noticed the gpu showing only 384 mb's of memory.. (The ATI Radeon on the HP2000)
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Old 16 October 2016, 20:14   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JZon View Post
Here is the config I chose for all versions..
...
(I think they are all the same..)
Yep they are all more or less the same. See below for some suggestions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JZon View Post
Judging from this pc (HP2000/Win8.0), I'm not sure if there is any acceleration available. I think ReadyBoost got taken out from Win7 to Win8, I can set priority (I think) possibly move WinUAE up the list (never tried), and I think I have some RAM modification apps. I left them out on this latest clean Win8 install as the things I was reading online seemed to suggest it's already optimized. (Aladdin 4D wants real memory. ((Not virtual)) It said) Not sure, maybe the pagefile size I'm using is a stock Win8 amount. (Haven't gone there either on latest install)
You can probably leave Windows OS settings alone. Except for the power mode, try setting that to High Performance if you're not running on battery.

As far as Amiga programs are concerned, they have real memory. (You're not running an Amiga-side virtual memory program like GigaMem.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by JZon View Post
Was the A4000T(ower) ever emulated? I think, if I'm not mistaken, it would require it's special own individualized rom.
WinUAE does support A4000T emulation. You'd need to find an A4000T Kickstart ROM and Workbench disks. In terms of emulated machine speed there will be no difference.


Back to your configs. I took a look and...

CPU and FPU:
CPU Emulation Speed: The CPU Idle slider is set all the way to the right. Try moving it (almost) all the way to the left.
Advanced JIT settings: Change cache size to 8MB (not sure that would make much difference, but it's the default setting).

Chipset:
Check Immediate Blitter. For OS-legal programs that could/should speed up graphical operations.
Change Collision Level from Full to None. Almost no programs (just a few games) use collision detection. Emulating it fully just wastes CPU time.

RAM:
You have 512MB Z3 fast RAM configured. Do you actually need anywhere near that amount? Try reducing it to 64 or 128MB.
You have a 256KB Zorro II fast RAM board configured. Not sure why. See "Z2 Fast Ram #2 [256k]" entry under Advanced Memory Settings.

Expansions: You have CD32 FMV cartridge configured, remove it. It can't coexist with the 8MB chip RAM you have.

RTG board: You could change Buffer mode to Triple buffering to see if that makes any difference.

Display:
You have "Blacker than black" checked. You probably don't want that since it makes normal Amiga black grey, not black.

You're using triple buffering. You could experiment with the other options (No buffering and Double buffering). Also, try disabling forced vsync if that's an option in your Windows graphics driver (e.g. Nvidia control panel). And try using full-screen mode for native and/or RTG modes.

Sound:
If you won't be using any programs that play sound, you can disable sound emulation to improve performance a little.


To try to get a useful benchmark of config changes, you could time (using a stopwatch) how long the emulated machine takes to render a scene in Aladdin 4D.
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Old 16 October 2016, 20:17   #35
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win 8.0 ? i recommend you updating to 8.1

the apu is not the powerhouse, but there must be something else, which explains the low values.
if your machine is a note/netbook, run it with power supply pluged in.
take a look at control panel -> Power Options., if there are any "power saving" options - disable them. choose "Balanced (recommeneded)" or "High Performance" if available.

in the amd catalyst setting there are also some power options / cpu-power-cosnsumtion.
if you see some restriction on cpu/gpu mhz rate, disable them,, choose full range (some sort of slider).

well, worth a look
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Old 16 October 2016, 21:46   #36
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Wow! BoingBag 1 and 2 are Official!

Good looking, I had Windows settings on high performance (on lock down already), didn't realize all the while AMDVisionEngineControlCenter was engaging Vari-Bright and best for battery power consumption. In fact, the AMDVisionEngineControlCenter runs nearly the full gamut of settings, but no unforce vsync.

CPU & FPU: I did not know that. Should have. Forgot, was there once.
JIT: Does all that extra cache actually take up more time? (I guess it would, just thinking if everything is max'd all the way out, kind of thing) Will test both ways..
Chipset Blitter: 101 stuff, looked right over it. Thank you.
Collision Level: Yes, If I choose to go into games again, it would be another config. Good looking. Will Aladdin 4D or my Deluxe Paints not look for this?
Z3FastRAM: Got it. I would ask, when do these things come into play, but I can seek this later.
Z2FastRAM: Got it. Ditto. (note to self, research 32-bit Chip and if Chip ((8mb)) could ever have increased)
Expansions: Good news. Thanx. (Just found out online that roms were also games) (That whole era was more inclusive. My friends had the KoalaPad.)
RTG: Triple Buffering. (Thought I did that) How about Vram? Will complex anim's want to see it set to 512 mb?
BlackerThanBlack: Did not know that. (I was thinking alpha channel and stuff)
Display Triple Buffering: Oh, OK. Yes, I set it here because I'm trying to recreate all original specs for ntsc and the power/display setup. (Trying to emulate same output as seen through a composite video out to a tube TV.)
Vsync: Neither in AMDVisionEngineControlCenter nor stock Win8 advanced settings. (Remember the KitchenSync?)
Sound: Got it. (Another config for games)
Yes, render time. Good looking. Will report back on that probably on a future post.

Thank you very much! OK. Going back in. Standby.. .. ..
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Old 16 October 2016, 21:57   #37
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After Hours

I decided to stick with 8.0 and see what I can do here. I could just as well go to 10. I thought Windows 7 was sufficient.
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Old 16 October 2016, 22:29   #38
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I thought Windows 7 was sufficient.
It is; I refuse to upgrade my laptop to Windows 8 / 8.1 / 10
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Old 16 October 2016, 22:47   #39
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Minoot Detail

The AMD Radeon HD 6310 is sharing 561 mb's with the pc's processor for a total of 945 mb's.

Yes, I know what you mean. I had set out to remove all internet functionality on my other Toshiba laptop (P6000) with Win7. Got 'er down to 16 second boot times. This pc, stock Win 8.0, had so much stuff reporting, hosting, disk and network activity, stock, that I had to really dig in eliminate all stock software, saving MS Visuals, disable all features but 1 or 2, eliminate 3rd party drivers that kept reappearing (RealTek), a plethora of entries in AutoRuns, the list goes on and on. But, I have a running list if you ever want to share unnecessary items.

OK. Thank you very much. Brother Jzon

Still standing by.. .. ..
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Old 16 October 2016, 23:33   #40
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LAB results are in.

OK. I gave it a more than a few whirls this time until it oscillated back to it's greatest reading. Wow! Big improvement! An extra 32 mhz increase!

Thank you. Thank you.

Also noticed during the affair, how 3.5 took the install so eloquently. I had to come back to 3.5 for the installer in 3.1 and for the 68040.library in 3.9.

The numbers for 3.1 and 3.5 are pretty close. I think I'll go with 3.5. It seems to be built for this setup.

OK. The results..

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Thank you very much! Brother Jzon
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