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Old 11 October 2016, 19:36   #21
utri007
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tcpdump -i Ariadne -s 0 -e -vvv
Tested tcpdump -i prism2 -s 0 -e -vvv

Nothing. I runned scanner and it didn't found my 68k amigas. It does found my OS4 machine, wich has also a static IP.

To be sure that tcpdump works, I runned iBrowse to see what happen and it caused a lots of text to shell window.

Note that I do not belive that this has very few to do with roadshow or ami tcp. Just thinking that this is very weird.

I have Access to my home router, it is Huawei 4g modem. There is very little settings inside of it, comparet to my previous DSL modem.

I have bought Raodshow, so no time limits here.
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Old 11 October 2016, 20:14   #22
Olaf Barthel
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Originally Posted by utri007 View Post
Tested tcpdump -i prism2 -s 0 -e -vvv

Nothing. I runned scanner and it didn't found my 68k amigas. It does found my OS4 machine, wich has also a static IP.
Well, but then your OS4 machine is probably using an Ethernet link, isn't it? These "tcpdump" options should have shown broadcast traffic, which is what the LAN scanner program uses to find servers. If no responses to these broadcast queries arrive, then the LAN scanner will not bother to perform further checks on the IPv4 address in question.

Quote:
To be sure that tcpdump works, I runned iBrowse to see what happen and it caused a lots of text to shell window.

Note that I do not belive that this has very few to do with roadshow or ami tcp. Just thinking that this is very weird.
It appears to me that the Amigas which use the wireless network do not share broadcast traffic with the wired network.

The LAN scanner program which you used would send the network queries as broadcast packets, which explains why the Amigas could not respond to them. The question now is, of course, why the broadcast packets are not showing up.

Your home router appears to handle both wired and wireless traffic and it is the interface between these media. If your previous router handled the interchange of broadcast traffic between the media differently, it would explain why changing the router to the model you are using now would cause problems.

Quote:
I have Access to my home router, it is Huawei 4g modem. There is very little settings inside of it, comparet to my previous DSL modem.
So, this could be genuine bug or limitation in the firmware, and not a feature?
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Old 11 October 2016, 20:49   #23
utri007
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Originally Posted by Olaf Barthel View Post
Your home router appears to handle both wired and wireless traffic and it is the interface between these media. If your previous router handled the interchange of broadcast traffic between the media differently, it would explain why changing the router to the model you are using now would cause problems.

So, this could be genuine bug or limitation in the firmware, and not a feature?
Hard to say, but this is annoying. AExplorer and netmout command has been very usefull to me. Not so nice feature is that I can't join Quake or Doom Network game started with my OS4 machine. So there is some problems with OS4 also.

I have Sam 440ep Flex wich is connected to Network with internal LAN and Zyxel Access point wich is configured to bridge.

Nice thing is that I can still connect to my NAS' shares with Amiga samba. I think that there is something wich is not supported By amiga.? Everything works with Windows, shares in / out, Network/lan games etc. Every Computer is connected wireless to Router, only Amigas has problems. Only NAS and HP laserjet is connected with wire.
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Old 12 October 2016, 06:18   #24
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Originally Posted by Olaf Barthel View Post
Some source code is available in the form of the Roadshow SDK, which includes (among other material) the Amiga-specific header files for 'C' language software development, as well as the full Amiga-specific source code for the utilities that ship with Roadshow. As required by the GPLv2 license, full source code for the Amiga ports of "wget" and "libpcap" & "tcpdump" is included, too. I chose not to include the "ftp" client command source code (which is derived from the same 4.4BSD-Lite2 code as the TCP/IP stack), because it's so ugly and old that probably the only purpose it could serve today would be to discourage developing "ftp" client commands in 'C'
Yeah I misunderstood what was meant when I saw "source" on your site; guess it is just the SDK. Well, a closed-source TCP/IP stack is far from ideal in 2016. What would it take toget you to open it up under a permissive license?
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Old 12 October 2016, 08:07   #25
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Originally Posted by utri007 View Post
Hard to say, but this is annoying. AExplorer and netmout command has been very usefull to me. Not so nice feature is that I can't join Quake or Doom Network game started with my OS4 machine. So there is some problems with OS4 also.

I have Sam 440ep Flex wich is connected to Network with internal LAN and Zyxel Access point wich is configured to bridge.
Hang on, your home router is not providing WLAN access to your network, but the ZyXEL device is responsible for that?

Did you use the ZyXEL device before you changed the home router, or is the ZyXEL device a new addition to your network, too?

Quote:
Nice thing is that I can still connect to my NAS' shares with Amiga samba. I think that there is something wich is not supported By amiga.? Everything works with Windows, shares in / out, Network/lan games etc. Every Computer is connected wireless to Router, only Amigas has problems. Only NAS and HP laserjet is connected with wire.
All Amigas use TCP/IP stacks which are technically 22-26 years old. They do most of what modern TCP/IP stacks can, but some aspects are missing (path MTU discovery, for example).

But it appears to me that the problems are less with the TCP/IP stack age and quality, and more with how the packets travel along your network.

It's puzzling for me how the packets which are used for mapping between IPv4 addresses and Ethernet hardware addresses (yes, that includes WLAN addresses as well) are generated on the Windows machine, yet they do not even show up on the Amiga side of the network.

Given that you can use your Amigas to access the Internet, but the home network is not carrying local traffic which is essential to the operations of the IP protocol, I reckon that either routing between physical networks could be the cause (wired network vs. wireless network), or a configuration option in one of the devices is not set correctly. This looks like a "software issue" to me, not like a hardware issue.
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Old 12 October 2016, 08:09   #26
Olaf Barthel
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Originally Posted by wXR View Post
Yeah I misunderstood what was meant when I saw "source" on your site; guess it is just the SDK. Well, a closed-source TCP/IP stack is far from ideal in 2016.
For that matter, the same should be said about a TCP/IP stack which is technically some 22 years old.

Quote:
What would it take toget you to open it up under a permissive license?
Well... I suppose it would require me to abandon all responsibility for Roadshow, with no further development or support work being done. Right now I cannot see this happening for a very long time.
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Old 12 October 2016, 08:11   #27
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Originally Posted by utri007 View Post
Hard to say, but this is annoying. AExplorer and netmout command has been very usefull to me. Not so nice feature is that I can't join Quake or Doom Network game started with my OS4 machine. So there is some problems with OS4 also.

I have Sam 440ep Flex wich is connected to Network with internal LAN and Zyxel Access point wich is configured to bridge.

Nice thing is that I can still connect to my NAS' shares with Amiga samba. I think that there is something wich is not supported By amiga.? Everything works with Windows, shares in / out, Network/lan games etc. Every Computer is connected wireless to Router, only Amigas has problems. Only NAS and HP laserjet is connected with wire.
I think Olaf Barthel is on the right track about the problem, your new router does not route certain type of packages between LAN and Wifi interfaces. In general, the whole system in SMB (LAN Manager) to negotiate master browser and updating the list for host discovery is unreliable (even according to Microsoft themselves), you have to manually specify the IP address (or get host name from other resolver) to be sure.

Regarding the Doom and Quake problems, both these games require UDP/IP not TCP/IP for server browsing and gameplay traffic (except when configured for Netware IPX). That might give you a hint what to look for when configuring.
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Old 12 October 2016, 08:49   #28
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This might be just shot-in-the-dark but I have noticed similar problem in pure win network and new router.
For some reason that router is limiting access to only those IPs that are in DHCP range, in this case those Amiga IPs are outside it.
No matter if connection was wireless or wired, that router did not "see" or allow traffic with IPs outside its DHCP range.

Fix was to use only IPs that are inside, in this case set router to give always same IP to those Amigas and use DHCP with them.
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Old 12 October 2016, 09:01   #29
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Originally Posted by JJKom View Post
This might be just shot-in-the-dark but I have noticed similar problem in pure win network and new router.
For some reason that router is limiting access to only those IPs that are in DHCP range, in this case those Amiga IPs are outside it.
No matter if connection was wireless or wired, that router did not "see" or allow traffic with IPs outside its DHCP range.

Fix was to use only IPs that are inside, in this case set router to give always same IP to those Amigas and use DHCP with them.
Interesting, gives me an idea.

utri007,

If JJKom is right, a possible fix could be to configure the Amiga hosts within the DHCP server IP range as static (fixed IP address), where you enter the MAC address and IP address for each Amiga host, most routers can handle this within the DHCP part of the configuration.

EDIT:

OK, I missed the "fix" part of JJKom's post, same suggestion using different words.

Last edited by modrobert; 12 October 2016 at 09:31. Reason: should read the whole post before replying...
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Old 12 October 2016, 09:01   #30
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Thx for the update Olaf!
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Old 12 October 2016, 09:23   #31
Olaf Barthel
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Originally Posted by JJKom View Post
This might be just shot-in-the-dark but I have noticed similar problem in pure win network and new router.
For some reason that router is limiting access to only those IPs that are in DHCP range, in this case those Amiga IPs are outside it.
No matter if connection was wireless or wired, that router did not "see" or allow traffic with IPs outside its DHCP range.
This sounds like the best explanation for the strange behaviour!

Quote:
Fix was to use only IPs that are inside, in this case set router to give always same IP to those Amigas and use DHCP with them.
Roadshow supports DHCP, so this should be easy to put to the test

However, I still find it difficult to explain why the ARP packets did not reach the WLAN portion of the network, unless the ZyXEL access point is hooked up directly to the home router, and the home router decides all by itself which packets to exchange with it. If this is the case, I would suggest attaching a separate switch to the home router, and plug the ZyXEL access point, as well as the other "wired" Amigas into it.
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Old 12 October 2016, 10:18   #32
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Olsen & Andreas,
any plan to do a physical release of Roadshow? I'd buy one in a heartbeat!
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Old 12 October 2016, 11:25   #33
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I am using MiamiDX as my TCP/ip stack. Someone could enlighten me what adventages RoadShow have ? Any comparisions between those two on PCMCIA network card or/and plipbox ?
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Old 12 October 2016, 11:37   #34
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@HanSolo

Well, for starters, the most striking advantage is Roadshow has a much better throughput than both MiamiDX and Genesis (AmiTCP). Also, Olaf can give more details of course, Roadshow supports some stuff, no other tcp/ip stack for amiga does.
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Old 12 October 2016, 13:23   #35
utri007
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Originally Posted by Olaf Barthel View Post
Hang on, your home router is not providing WLAN access to your network, but the ZyXEL device is responsible for that?

Did you use the ZyXEL device before you changed the home router, or is the ZyXEL device a new addition to your network, too?

All Amigas use TCP/IP stacks which are technically 22-26 years old. They do most of what modern TCP/IP stacks can, but some aspects are missing (path MTU discovery, for example).

But it appears to me that the problems are less with the TCP/IP stack age and quality, and more with how the packets travel along your network.

It's puzzling for me how the packets which are used for mapping between IPv4 addresses and Ethernet hardware addresses (yes, that includes WLAN addresses as well) are generated on the Windows machine, yet they do not even show up on the Amiga side of the network.

Given that you can use your Amigas to access the Internet, but the home network is not carrying local traffic which is essential to the operations of the IP protocol, I reckon that either routing between physical networks could be the cause (wired network vs. wireless network), or a configuration option in one of the devices is not set correctly. This looks like a "software issue" to me, not like a hardware issue.
Sorry I was unclear. I don't have a wlan in my Sam 440ep, so it is connected with wire to Zyxel, wich is configured connect to Huawei with WLAN.
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Old 12 October 2016, 16:40   #36
Olaf Barthel
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Sorry I was unclear. I don't have a wlan in my Sam 440ep, so it is connected with wire to Zyxel, wich is configured connect to Huawei with WLAN.
Hm... how did you link up the ZyXEL device and your Huawei router to play nice with each other over the WLAN network?

I am asking because creating robust WLAN bridges (bridge = Ethernet frames are exchanged between both sides of the bridge) used to be tricky even at the best of times. Unless... the equipment on both ends of the bridge were made by the same manufacturer ("wireless distribution system").

I am getting the impression that the WLAN bridge you set up is the source of your troubles, concerning the restricted connectivity of the Amigas.
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Old 12 October 2016, 17:57   #37
utri007
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First I tried to do a bridge with D-Link acces point. It worked, but it shoot down every other device using WLAN. Zyxel has worked nicely. But it can't be reason for this, it is not always on. In a matter of fact is uses same power cord than my Commodore 64, Amstrad CPC, Sinclair ZX Spectrum, Atari etc. get their power.

68k Amigas are all in same power cord.
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Old 12 October 2016, 22:42   #38
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Originally Posted by funK View Post
Olsen & Andreas,
any plan to do a physical release of Roadshow? I'd buy one in a heartbeat!
I would do the same. Guess I have to settle with the Archiv Download for now.
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Old 13 October 2016, 01:47   #39
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Many thanks for the update ! Roadshow is imho the best TCP/IP stack today on 68k.
On AmigaOS yes, in general, certainly not
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Old 13 October 2016, 01:55   #40
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utri007: are you sure you are not just running NAT behind NAT, and not at all a bridge? Do other, non-amiga, wireless devices show up?

It would help if you could tell what IP-adresses, netmasks and gateways you have for your various devices, I suspect your wireless network and wired network are not on same LAN
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