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Old 06 October 2016, 16:02   #141
Lord Aga
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Jens is right. There is no way a "card without a CPU" sales model would work.

Even if he put out a detailed list of working CPUs and their designations you could easily buy a fake with those designations.
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Old 06 October 2016, 17:16   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schoenfeld View Post
There is no trouble to make it work with a CPU of some type, but "who pays for the service of finding out that the CPU is faulty?". The engineering time until you have *proven* (not just tried) that the CPU is at fault and the card is A-OK can easily be more expensive than the card itself.

So now we have a customer who purchased a card w/o CPU for maybe 400,- EUR. He also spent some amount for a CPU, puts both together and finds that it does not work.

The CPU came "from eBay", and the seller won't answer eMails. So the whole thing goes to me, and I'll do a 500,- EUR job proving that the CPU is at fault, and the card only suffered minor scratches, but works fine.

Customer refuses to pay, even threatens me with a lawyer, so I have to pay for all shipping. He then executes his right of revocation, leaving me with a scratched card, shipping cost and unpaid engineering work. If worse comes to worse, he even claims that my card has damaged his 200-EUR-CPU and makes me pay for that.
Not my kind of business.

Jens
@Schoenfeld First of all, I said I understand your standpoint, the question was how you reason around offering Amiga Reloaded mobo without CPU ;-)
(e.g. someone tries to use the mobo with an ACA card he got off eBay, he has no idea if this card is working until he can test it with Amiga Reloaded and if it doesn't work, will he send back the Reloaded mobo? ebay seller says "no returns", sold "as is")..
Oh well, we don't see the the Reloaded mobo anywhere anyway, so maybe this will not be an actual problem.

@LordAga, I get that, but there is also a whole bunch of experienced users who have perfectly legit, working 040s and 060s lying around. (I have a couple of spare, perfectly working 040s myself as I only use the rev6 060 on the A1200)
I'm not too sure about laws and such in this matter, but I Imagine if I was in Jens's position Id offer a card with CPU pre-installed with full warranties etc and a second card with empty socket that is sold "as is" where the user agrees to a EULA that specifies that Jens can not be held responsible for damage caused by third party, untested CPUs.
(Have you ever read a full EULA when you install Windows or iOS etc.. no one would actually do it if they fully understood it.)
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Old 06 October 2016, 17:49   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eXeler0 View Post
the question was how you reason around offering Amiga Reloaded mobo without CPU ;-)
That's a lot easier, as installation of an A1200 accelerator cannot be messed up (impossible to install upside-down or bend pins), and using the warranty IDs of the cards, I can track who this was sold to, and who is responsible for service. Hint: If you buy something that is supposedly still under warranty, you should make sure that the seller also transfers the warranty to your name (piece of paper, two addresses, single sentence, seller's signature, done). Otherwise the warranty won't apply to you as a buyer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eXeler0 View Post
I'm not too sure about laws and such in this matter, but I Imagine if I was in Jens's position Id offer a card with CPU pre-installed with full warranties etc and a second card with empty socket that is sold "as is" where the user agrees to a EULA that specifies that Jens can not be held responsible for damage caused by third party, untested CPUs.
I have already checked this possibility with a German lawyer. The idea "sell a memory card for 400,- EUR that just happens to also work with an 060 CPU" doesn't work in European B2C business. Even if you specifically exclude the possibility of inserting a CPU, the mere existence of the socket on the board implies that it has a functionality, thus I am responsible for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eXeler0 View Post
(Have you ever read a full EULA when you install Windows or iOS etc.. no one would actually do it if they fully understood it.)
That's an American EULA, which is pretty safe to ignore within Europe, as any EU law is above any B2C license agreement. The beauty of CETA and TTIP not in force (and hopefully never will).

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Old 06 October 2016, 17:49   #144
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Originally Posted by dirkies View Post
Instead of his aggressive response on Facebook that he will sue X Y Z who is critical of the new P5
Did he really threaten to sue people that comment negatively? On what grounds? He obviously doesn't understand laws. This is ridiculous.
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Old 06 October 2016, 18:15   #145
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He wrote:

Quote:
we dont understand any fun in the time of reading or hearing false stories about any hoaxes. These are free invented stories by people with very bad intentions and we will fight those behaviours of some people spreading lies in various legal ways, contrary to the old Company.
so if you have any justified doubts, you basically have bad intentions!
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Old 06 October 2016, 19:59   #146
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@Schoenfeld

I have a Question regarding the possibility of putting own processor on the card. Would it be possible and affordable for you if a customer send you his processor and you maybe test it / insert it on the card or would that be the same as if the customer would do it alone at home?
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Old 06 October 2016, 20:50   #147
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@Schoenfeld
Thanks for clarifying why we won't be seeing a cpu-less card, it's a shame from my point of view but I can totally understand it from the business case.

Good luck getting a source of 060's one day
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Old 06 October 2016, 21:16   #148
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Originally Posted by AJCopland View Post
@Schoenfeld
Thanks for clarifying why we won't be seeing a cpu-less card, it's a shame from my point of view but I can totally understand it from the business case.

Good luck getting a source of 060's one day
Sometimes, the most important thing in business is "timing". It's possible that after the arrival of the V1200, the demand for expensive 060 cards will diminish to very low levels, and those cards already in existence may be enough to cover the demand of the few who for some reason in the last 25 years still haven't acquired one yet, so some will simply shift owners and "everyone" is happy.




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Old 06 October 2016, 21:28   #149
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Originally Posted by dirkies View Post
so if you have any justified doubts, you basically have bad intentions!
This guy is mental, and there's no law against free speech. But maybe in his mind there is, judging by his Facebook profile.
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Old 06 October 2016, 21:29   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirkies View Post
He wrote:
so if you have any justified doubts, you basically have bad intentions!
I dunno, in this thread he's been called a scammer and a hoaxer... Hoaxer isn't so bad, but accusing him of being a scammer could well cross a line. (Not a lawyer though)
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Old 06 October 2016, 21:53   #151
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i would like someobody to make a nice new amiga 1200 with a socket for a 040 or an 060 option already on the board with some pcie slots and pci slots and super aga with lots of video memory and atleast 4gb of ram yeahhaaa so please make it , amigas are getting old and tired .
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Old 07 October 2016, 09:44   #152
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Originally Posted by eXeler0 View Post
It's possible that after the arrival of the V1200, the demand for expensive 060 cards will diminish to very low levels
IF the V1200 ever arrives. And still, 060-accelerators and the possible A1200 Vampire aren't necessarily competing for the same markets, as there's enough people who'd be interested in a real 060-card instead but not the Vampire.
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Old 07 October 2016, 10:29   #153
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so if you have any justified doubts, you basically have bad intentions!
May be you're misunderstanding the statement. To me "fighting in various legal ways" does not necessarily mean taking legal measures. It would certainly be legal to fight e.g. by posting ridiculous comments on facebook...

Last edited by grond; 07 October 2016 at 10:40. Reason: typo
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Old 07 October 2016, 12:16   #154
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Now he posted an oversized "prototype board" to "prove" it is real (no proof, could be a recovered 90s prototype, just look at pcb close up how worn and yellowed some of the stickers are!) but when i commented that he initially said to remake the exact same cards as in the 90s, and when he would get "sufficient funding" he would consider making newer designs. So why the need for a totally new and different prototype NOW before even the original design was remade...

guess what...my comment deleted and no reaction!! That would never happen with a serious/legitimate company IMHO.

This starts to look like a Nigerian 419 scam. Anyone handing money over to this guy in advance is nothing but a moron.

Ps: and notice the prototype PCB has NOTHING in common with the CADCAM PCB design screenshots released as teasers.
But i guess i won't ask that question either as it will be deleted in silence once more...

Last edited by dirkies; 07 October 2016 at 12:25.
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Old 07 October 2016, 12:55   #155
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He is not asking for any money in advance so stop bitching ffs. Although i have my own doubts i will wait until he makes official release. He already got called every name in this topic already...
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Old 07 October 2016, 14:19   #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dirkies View Post
Now he posted an oversized "prototype board" to "prove" it is real (no proof, could be a recovered 90s prototype, just look at pcb close up how worn and yellowed some of the stickers are!) but when i commented that he initially said to remake the exact same cards as in the 90s, and when he would get "sufficient funding" he would consider making newer designs. So why the need for a totally new and different prototype NOW before even the original design was remade...

guess what...my comment deleted and no reaction!! That would never happen with a serious/legitimate company IMHO.

This starts to look like a Nigerian 419 scam. Anyone handing money over to this guy in advance is nothing but a moron.

Ps: and notice the prototype PCB has NOTHING in common with the CADCAM PCB design screenshots released as teasers.
But i guess i won't ask that question either as it will be deleted in silence once more...
It's an old prototype - I've seen this card last year in Neuss - check the IC & Machs on this prototypes. Thats the card made by Mr.Carda. Since he posted this pictures he deletes all comments in a few minutes concerning this point. Be aware.

Edit: To proof my story I've uploaded two pictures @a1k which were made by me.
http://www.a1k.org/forum/showpost.ph...&postcount=275

Last edited by AMike; 07 October 2016 at 14:43.
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Old 07 October 2016, 15:41   #157
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Originally Posted by britelite View Post
IF the V1200 ever arrives. And still, 060-accelerators and the possible A1200 Vampire aren't necessarily competing for the same markets, as there's enough people who'd be interested in a real 060-card instead but not the Vampire.
I think I already have this argument covered by what I wrote. My point is that, yes, there are ppl who have failed for 20+ years to find a 060 accelerator and would probably still want to buy one.
BUT my reasoning was that there's maybe an equal amount of ppl who will be willing to let their 1260s go after getting the V1200.


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Old 07 October 2016, 16:30   #158
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Originally Posted by AMike View Post
It's an old prototype - I've seen this card last year in Neuss - check the IC & Machs on this prototypes. Thats the card made by Mr.Carda. Since he posted this pictures he deletes all comments in a few minutes concerning this point. Be aware.

Edit: To proof my story I've uploaded two pictures @a1k which were made by me.
http://www.a1k.org/forum/showpost.ph...&postcount=275
Curiouser and curiouser. Pass the popcorn
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Old 07 October 2016, 17:02   #159
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I don't believe they are posting it as "their" first prototype but as "the" first prototype from however many years ago. The heading of the post is "Throwback Thursday" which typically references something from the past.

Quote:
It’s Tthrowback Thursday ! Here you see the first Blizzard 1260 68040/060 CPU Amiga Accelerator Prototype.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dirkies View Post
Now he posted an oversized "prototype board" to "prove" it is real (no proof, could be a recovered 90s prototype, just look at pcb close up how worn and yellowed some of the stickers are!) but when i commented that he initially said to remake the exact same cards as in the 90s, and when he would get "sufficient funding" he would consider making newer designs. So why the need for a totally new and different prototype NOW before even the original design was remade...

guess what...my comment deleted and no reaction!! That would never happen with a serious/legitimate company IMHO.

This starts to look like a Nigerian 419 scam. Anyone handing money over to this guy in advance is nothing but a moron.

Ps: and notice the prototype PCB has NOTHING in common with the CADCAM PCB design screenshots released as teasers.
But i guess i won't ask that question either as it will be deleted in silence once more...
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Old 07 October 2016, 17:09   #160
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Well he did not say this was a NEW prototype, he just mentions the word "throwback" which indicates it is something from the past. However despite many people misled by this post thinking this is a NEW prototype, he nowhere clarifies this is not the case.
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