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Old 09 August 2016, 15:42   #1
DamienD
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Moon Child AGA - Graphics Corruption

Hello Toni,

If you don't mind, could you possibly take a look at information related to Moon Child in the "[unreleased] Amiga games..." thread? Specifically these posts:

... http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=...3&postcount=85
... http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=...3&postcount=89
... http://eab.abime.net/showpost.php?p=...5&postcount=90

Retro-Nerd has kindly tested on his A1200 and the issue isn't present.

Do you need me to grab logs / save state / anything else?
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Old 09 August 2016, 16:35   #2
Toni Wilen
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Usual lack of config information. Only some random WB config mentioned that probably uses some fastest possible mode.

Test at least with immediate blitter enabled. Screenshot of the glitch. (It does not matter if glitch changes, "type" of glitch is more important)

And finally, if it still happens when basic A1200 mode: attach state file.
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Old 09 August 2016, 16:42   #3
DamienD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
Usual lack of config information. Only some random WB config mentioned that probably uses some fastest possible mode.
Moon Child is installed on a standard Workbench 3.1 .HDF; no frills.

Configuration used is a "A1200 - 2MB Chip & 4MB Fast RAM configuration (with Cycle-Exact on)". I never use the "fastest possible" setting...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
Test at least with immediate blitter enabled. Screenshot of the glitch. (It does not matter if glitch changes, "type" of glitch is more important)
Immediate blitter is not switch on in my config. Pretty sure I tried that though and same issue...

Screenshot is in the other thread but added here now also:



Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
And finally, if it still happens when basic A1200 mode: attach state file.
The game requires fast RAM so need to use a "A1200 - 2MB Chip & 4MB Fast RAM configuration".

Will test again tonight and grab a save state file.

Thanks Toni
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Old 09 August 2016, 17:21   #4
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Ok, had some time to test

Used a "Quickstart - A1200 4MB Fast RAM expanded configuration" with "Best compatibility" and "Immediate Blitter" selected.

.HDF used is a freshly setup / standard Workbench 3.1 installation.

Screenshot here:



Save state in The Zone! and linked to here: http://download.abime.net/zone/Moon%...ve%20State.zip
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Old 10 August 2016, 14:59   #5
Toni Wilen
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Warning: technical stuff.

Hmm.. It uses DDFSTOP value $d8 but 64-bit AGA fetch mode. This combination would mean last "bitplane block" fetch start position of $d8 or later. In this case it would equal start position near the beginning of next scanline (Previous is at $b0, next would be $c8+$20 = $e8 which is >$e2). In other words there can be some undocumented side-effect happening. (Usually bitplane DMA overrun causes visible glitches but not always). This oddity causes emulation to skip modulo addition (gets too confused with fetch block that does not start until next scanline) which also can't be right

Testing needed...

It looks like game uses normal OCS/ECS DDFSTRT/STOP pair and modulo was adjusted until display become "AGA compatible". (and possibly also wasted 8 dma slots for invisible bitplane data)
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Old 10 August 2016, 15:02   #6
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Thanks as always for taking the time to investigate and write the detailed explanation Toni

...although everything you've said has gone way over my head

Do you need me to upload the small WB 3.1 .HDF (with Moon Child installed) for you in order to test / play with things? Anything else I can do to assist?

Last edited by DamienD; 10 August 2016 at 15:14.
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Old 13 August 2016, 17:21   #7
Toni Wilen
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This is now fixed.

Bitplane DMA weirdness is not cycle-exact (would need logic analyzer tests) but it does not make any difference in this case (except DMA debugger will complain).
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Old 13 August 2016, 17:27   #8
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Indeed it is:



Thank you very much Toni

...is there anything you can't fix / solve; I doubt it
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Old 13 August 2016, 18:09   #9
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HOL guys; I've taken screenshots for this and put in The Zone! for you
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Old 13 August 2016, 19:33   #10
Toni Wilen
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Some more technical details. (Will be moved to undocumented thread when emulation is complete and full details are known)

I have confirmed that active bitplane DMA really continues to next scanline. Tested by modifying bitplane modulo at the beginning of next scanline, if modulo was changed between hpos 0 to 9, current scanline changed, if changed later, it only affected following scanline.

Same effect with bitplane pointer, if pointer was changed early enough, bitplane data in far left overscan changed in current scanline, if changed later, it only affected graphics after DDFSTRT.

Current emulation does not support above tricks -> it needs to be better

I guess this does not cause corruption because if AGA fetchmode is large enough, there can't be refresh cycle conflicts. But I do expect audio DMA conflicts which should break sound. (Probably explains why no one noticed buggy graphics setup..)
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Old 15 August 2016, 17:15   #11
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Hey Toni,

Using the latest beta fix above breaks "Moon Child" on the Team Hoi & Moon Child title screen; in-game is still ok though...





You can see how these were correctly displayed in v3.3.0 and the beta released on the 13th by looking at HOL; screenshots No 41 + No 43:

http://hol.abime.net/5573/screenshot
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Old 15 August 2016, 17:40   #12
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It is normal. Anything can happen unless it is specifically marked as official beta.

It fixes window size restriction and includes non-finished less hacky support for bitplane overrun emulation.
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Old 15 August 2016, 17:42   #13
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Ok, thanks Toni.

Is there a way I can download the beta from the 13th somehow?
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Old 15 August 2016, 17:43   #14
Toni Wilen
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No. They are not betas, they don't exist
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Old 15 August 2016, 18:18   #15
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Works again. (But don't download random executables again unless asked! )
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Old 15 August 2016, 18:36   #16
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Cheers but you didn't need to fix immediately, I understood what you were saying so was prepared to wait for an official beta or release
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Old 15 August 2016, 19:42   #17
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I was already fixing it. It would have been fixed few hours later, with or without you mentioning it
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Old 15 August 2016, 19:52   #18
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Just tried the latest file; unfortunately the sound is jumping / stuttering and the text on the Moon Child title screen never appears...

Anyway, please don't bother fixing for now. I'm sure you've got better things to do, I'll wait for an official beta
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Old 27 December 2016, 10:23   #19
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Hi guys,

I stumbled across this thread about our Moon Child demo version. In some way it's an honor we managed to give a hard time to one of the best Amiga emulators around. 😉

I assume this issue has been resolved, as a mention of Moon Child was included in a recent release?

Sadly, the full game was never finished for the Amiga. We had to move over to Windows in the mid-1990s, because the publisher who paid our development demanded it, and prospects for the Amiga were sombre after Commodore went broke.

The full Moon Child was released for Windows though, on CD-ROM, with CD audio tracks by our musician Ramon Braumuller. Later, MC was also released for iOS for free, but by now it has become outdated iOS-wise.

Our predecessor to Moon Child — Hoi — is available for free though, both the original 2-disk version as well as the improved AGA version with Workbench shell. You can easily find that as a download.

Best regards,

Metin Seven
on behalf of Team Hoi
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Old 27 December 2016, 16:40   #20
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Heya Metin,

Thanks for the post

Yes, all is working perfectly now in WinUAE thanks to the main man Toni.

Moon Child [AGA]; it is a shame that it was never completed for the Amiga. Totally understand the reasons why though.

Hoi / Hoi Remix [AGA]; have both of these added to my games collection already but cheers for heads-up
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