English Amiga Board Amiga Lore


Go Back   English Amiga Board > Main > Amiga scene

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 18 July 2016, 21:18   #1
Tempest 2084
Prototype Historian
Tempest 2084's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: SE MI / USA
Posts: 405
Indivision ECS Scrolling?

Does anyone know if the Indivision ECS has the same scrolling issues as the AGA Mk2 version?
Tempest 2084 is offline  
AdSense AdSense  
Old 19 July 2016, 08:29   #2
JLPedro
JLPedro
JLPedro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Coimbra, Portugal
Age: 41
Posts: 81
Indy ECS can be set to 50hz screen, so in a CRT or an LCD that supports 50hz, you get a perfect scrool just like on a 1084s monitor .
JLPedro is offline  
Old 19 July 2016, 14:50   #3
trixster
Guru Meditating

 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: England
Posts: 767
With certain monitors the aga mk2 can achieve 50hz smooth scrolling too.
trixster is offline  
Old 19 July 2016, 15:30   #4
Tempest 2084
Prototype Historian
Tempest 2084's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: SE MI / USA
Posts: 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by JLPedro View Post
Indy ECS can be set to 50hz screen, so in a CRT or an LCD that supports 50hz, you get a perfect scrool just like on a 1084s monitor .
The reason I ask is that I have my Amiga 3000 hooked up to my CRT through ts native monitor port (with the Amber doubler) and when I choose any of the PAL resolutions I get some flicker that starts to hurt the eyes after a bit. I used this same monitor with my 2000 and the Indivision ECS and never saw that flicker in PAL modes, but I also never tested it with scrolling games (just static screened RPGs). So before I go through the trouble of putting the Indivision ECS in my 3000 I wanted to make sure that it would solve my issue and not cause new ones.
Tempest 2084 is offline  
Old 19 July 2016, 15:34   #5
roondar
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest 2084 View Post
The reason I ask is that I have my Amiga 3000 hooked up to my CRT through ts native monitor port (with the Amber doubler) and when I choose any of the PAL resolutions I get some flicker that starts to hurt the eyes after a bit. I used this same monitor with my 2000 and the Indivision ECS and never saw that flicker in PAL modes, but I also never tested it with scrolling games (just static screened RPGs). So before I go through the trouble of putting the Indivision ECS in my 3000 I wanted to make sure that it would solve my issue and not cause new ones.
There is a good chance this is the 50Hz refresh rate causing flicker, in which case the Indivision (wether ECS or AGA) can't fix this unless you accept non-smooth scrolling as a payoff.
roondar is offline  
Old 19 July 2016, 16:24   #6
Tempest 2084
Prototype Historian
Tempest 2084's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: SE MI / USA
Posts: 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by roondar View Post
There is a good chance this is the 50Hz refresh rate causing flicker, in which case the Indivision (wether ECS or AGA) can't fix this unless you accept non-smooth scrolling as a payoff.
That's what I was afraid of. I suppose I can try another monitor and see if that helps. Otherwise I'll just stick with the 3000's doubler.

So the Indivision adjusts the refresh rate to something that doesn't flicker on the monitor, but this affects the scrolling in games? Has anyone done research to see how bad effect is?
Tempest 2084 is offline  
Old 19 July 2016, 16:36   #7
roondar
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest 2084 View Post
That's what I was afraid of. I suppose I can try another monitor and see if that helps. Otherwise I'll just stick with the 3000's doubler.

So the Indivision adjusts the refresh rate to something that doesn't flicker on the monitor, but this affects the scrolling in games? Has anyone done research to see how bad effect is?
The Indivision ECS and AGA both default to a refresh rate of 60Hz instead of 50Hz. This usually reduces flicker quite a lot.

However, to convert 50 to 60Hz, you need to add duplicate frames for 20% of the frames. There are many ways this can be done, but the simplest is to just add one duplicate frame every 5 frames. Another way I've seen happen is to add a bunch of duplicate frames at the end of 50 displayed frames.

Both cause visible judder. How much this bothers you is a personal preference. I find these conversions really, really jarring. Others not so much.
roondar is offline  
Old 19 July 2016, 16:44   #8
Tempest 2084
Prototype Historian
Tempest 2084's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: SE MI / USA
Posts: 405
Thanks for the explanation, I think I understand now.

I suppose I can put the Indivision board in my system and try it out. If I run into a game where the scrolling bothers me I can switch over to the built in doubler. Is there any danger in hot swapping the video port? Do I need turn the Amiga off first?
Tempest 2084 is offline  
Old 19 July 2016, 16:51   #9
roondar
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 238
I'd say best not to risk it with hardware this old. It usually works without problems, but you never know (plus the manual always said you shouldn't ) and repairs/replacements are more expensive than I'd like.
roondar is offline  
Old 19 July 2016, 19:13   #10
Tempest 2084
Prototype Historian
Tempest 2084's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: SE MI / USA
Posts: 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by roondar View Post
I'd say best not to risk it with hardware this old. It usually works without problems, but you never know (plus the manual always said you shouldn't ) and repairs/replacements are more expensive than I'd like.
You're probably right. I was going to use a VGA switch box to switch between the two on the fly.
Tempest 2084 is offline  
Old 19 July 2016, 19:17   #11
demolition
Unregistered User
demolition's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Copenhagen / DK
Age: 37
Posts: 3,248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest 2084 View Post
You're probably right. I was going to use a VGA switch box to switch between the two on the fly.
With a VGA switch box, I think the risk is low of frying anything. The switch box will keep the grounds connected at all times so there won't be any high voltage potentials.
demolition is offline  
Old 19 July 2016, 19:26   #12
Tempest 2084
Prototype Historian
Tempest 2084's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: SE MI / USA
Posts: 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by demolition View Post
With a VGA switch box, I think the risk is low of frying anything. The switch box will keep the grounds connected at all times so there won't be any high voltage potentials.
I might try that then.

Will the output from the A3000's Amber chip work at the same time as the Indivision?
Tempest 2084 is offline  
Old 19 July 2016, 19:31   #13
demolition
Unregistered User
demolition's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Copenhagen / DK
Age: 37
Posts: 3,248
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempest 2084 View Post
I might try that then.

Will the output from the A3000's Amber chip work at the same time as the Indivision?
I don't see why not. The Indivision doesn't cut any existing signals, so the original RGB signals are still present.
demolition is offline  
Old 19 July 2016, 22:22   #14
alexh
Thalion Webshrine
alexh's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Oxford
Posts: 11,868
Depending on what you want to watch.... try WHDload with tool type NTSC it will switch to 60hz and eliminate some flicker. Side effect is part of the screen may be not visible if the game / demo didn't have borders and music may play back faster. Not perfect but it is free.

Also the AMBER has a pot (little screw by the VGA) you can use to tune flicker. Don't adjust it too far and mark where it was in case you make it worse
alexh is offline  
Old 20 July 2016, 01:28   #15
Tempest 2084
Prototype Historian
Tempest 2084's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: SE MI / USA
Posts: 405
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexh View Post

Also the AMBER has a pot (little screw by the VGA) you can use to tune flicker. Don't adjust it too far and mark where it was in case you make it worse
The flicker is only in PAL modes though. Would this break NTSC modes if I adjusted it?
Tempest 2084 is offline  
AdSense AdSense  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Indivision ECS scu98rkr support.Hardware 20 29 September 2016 09:40
Indivision 1200 AGA MK2cr scrolling question schneidas support.Hardware 45 29 July 2015 13:09
[WTB] Indivision AGA (for CD32/4000) + Indivision ECS Seaside MarketPlace 3 15 March 2012 22:03
Indivision ECS amiga1 support.Hardware 12 01 June 2011 04:24
Trading my Indivision AGA for an Indivision ECS 8bitbubsy Swapshop 3 11 May 2011 23:02

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 01:21.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Page generated in 0.21049 seconds with 11 queries