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Old 15 July 2016, 14:51   #1
AmigaDoom
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Hello from America

Hi I'm new here. I'm actually new to the Amiga world and I never used one so yeah.
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Old 15 July 2016, 15:04   #2
eXeler0
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Howdy stranger, welcome to the forums.
How did you find the Amiga scene? ;-) Are you interested in retro computing / gaming in general?
Were you around back in the day when the Amiga was a thing?

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Old 15 July 2016, 15:28   #3
AmigaDoom
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Originally Posted by eXeler0 View Post
Howdy stranger, welcome to the forums.
How did you find the Amiga scene? ;-) Are you interested in retro computing / gaming in general?
Were you around back in the day when the Amiga was a thing?

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I found the Amiga scene through Youtube.
I am interested in Retro computing/gaming in general.
No I was not around during the time of the Amiga, I was born in 1997.
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Old 15 July 2016, 22:09   #4
debiani386
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Hello AmigaDoom, do you own an Amiga, or do you use emulation?
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Old 15 July 2016, 22:16   #5
AmigaDoom
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Originally Posted by debiani386 View Post
Hello AmigaDoom, do you own an Amiga, or do you use emulation?
Emulation.
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Old 15 July 2016, 22:17   #6
Pyromania
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Do you like to play the game Doom?
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Old 15 July 2016, 22:19   #7
AmigaDoom
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Do you like to play the game Doom?
Yes, but I never managed to beat it.
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Old 16 July 2016, 00:34   #8
Pyromania
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Tell us more AmigaDoom. What kind of Amiga's did you have?
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Old 16 July 2016, 01:42   #9
AmigaDoom
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Tell us more AmigaDoom. What kind of Amiga's did you have?
I don't have any Amiga's; I mentioned earlier this thread I am using Emulation. I only so far have gotten kickstart roms and I haven't actually ran any programs or games yet.
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Old 16 July 2016, 02:24   #10
eXeler0
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I don't have any Amiga's; I mentioned earlier this thread I am using Emulation. I only so far have gotten kickstart roms and I haven't actually ran any programs or games yet.
These days, the most hassle-free way to play loads of Amiga games is to install WHDLoad then get games fixed for it.
WHDLoad is a "software/project" that aims to fix all old games so that they run from a hard drive as lots of old games were kind of "hard coded" to run on a specific Amiga (commonly 512kB RAM) and from a floppy.

WHDLoad is free these days, you should look into it ;-)

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Old 16 July 2016, 03:47   #11
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welcome AmigaDoom, you will find alot of great and helpful Amiga owners / users here (real hardware and emulation).

i prefer real hardware to emulation but it seems as if everyone selling old computer hardware thinks it worth a fortune just because its old.

but if you look, you can still find good deals on Amiga hardware.

again, welcome.
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Old 16 July 2016, 05:35   #12
ChrisUnionNJ
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Originally Posted by AmigaDoom View Post
I don't have any Amiga's; I mentioned earlier this thread I am using Emulation. I only so far have gotten kickstart roms and I haven't actually ran any programs or games yet.
I would say if you want to get a fast start just get Amiga Forever
this is what got me back into using the real hardware again..

https://www.amigaforever.com
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Old 16 July 2016, 14:41   #13
AmigaDoom
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Originally Posted by kneehighspy View Post
welcome AmigaDoom, you will find alot of great and helpful Amiga owners / users here (real hardware and emulation).

i prefer real hardware to emulation but it seems as if everyone selling old computer hardware thinks it worth a fortune just because its old.

but if you look, you can still find good deals on Amiga hardware.

again, welcome.
Thanks. Everytime I go on ebay I find Amigas are so expensive and I never see any for the NTSC region.
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Old 16 July 2016, 14:43   #14
AmigaDoom
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I would say if you want to get a fast start just get Amiga Forever
this is what got me back into using the real hardware again..

https://www.amigaforever.com
I'll look into that.
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Old 16 July 2016, 14:50   #15
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Originally Posted by eXeler0 View Post
These days, the most hassle-free way to play loads of Amiga games is to install WHDLoad then get games fixed for it.
WHDLoad is a "software/project" that aims to fix all old games so that they run from a hard drive as lots of old games were kind of "hard coded" to run on a specific Amiga (commonly 512kB RAM) and from a floppy.

WHDLoad is free these days, you should look into it ;-)
Hassle free and illegal if you do not buy the corresponding originals or do not use games which have been explicitly "released" to the community by their owners.
Many commercial games (but a minority only) have been made legally downloadable by their owners and you can use these with WHDLoad without problems, for the others, you also need to buy the corresponding originals if you want to be in the clear.

It is up to you what you do (I only play what I buy) obviously but you should not assume all games are available for free legally. Same as MAME.

And yes, AmigaForever is a great start, if only because it gives you legal rights to use the official Amiga OS ROMs in an emulator of your choice and comes bundled with a reasonably simple practical emulator setup. I would personally recommend you use it initially but then create your own WinUAE setup or FS-UAE (another more user friendly and portable version) when you get more experience.
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Old 16 July 2016, 21:31   #16
eXeler0
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Hassle free and illegal if you do not buy the corresponding originals or do not use games which have been explicitly "released" to the community by their owners.
Many commercial games (but a minority only) have been made legally downloadable by their owners and you can use these with WHDLoad without problems, for the others, you also need to buy the corresponding originals if you want to be in the clear.

It is up to you what you do (I only play what I buy) obviously but you should not assume all games are available for free legally. Same as MAME.
If you go to something like Team 17s site you'll find all their releases as legal downloads. And there's plenty of them.
Not all publishers / devs cared or could be bothered with doing that. It was easier to just walk away and not look back.

(But legally speaking, downloading software that was released 25 years ago and impossible to buy from any official source for at least 20... May not be automatically legal... But , who's losing money on it? As long as you don't try to re-sell it, no court would care because how can you seek compensation if it hasn't been for sale for decades.)

That being said, I pretty much Only got original games back in the day, even on the C64 because I liked to have the boxes and the stuff that sometimes came inside). But I'm not going RainMan on anyone's ass for downloading abandonware ;-)





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Old 17 July 2016, 06:35   #17
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If you go to something like Team 17s site you'll find all their releases as legal downloads. And there's plenty of them.
You are absolutely right, this is what I referred to by "released to the public" in my sentence you quote.

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Not all publishers / devs cared or could be bothered with doing that. It was easier to just walk away and not look back.
This is unfortunately less simple than that.

When you business grows to other domains, managing these other things is not the "easy" choice, it is the one that keeps you both busy and alive. Assuming that not taking care of their Amiga related property is a consequence of laziness ignores an enormous host of interferences and the complexity of making business.

Companies did not ignore the retro market because it was easy but because they were too busy handling their _current_ market. Yes, some people in the organization did ignore requests but that does not mean that the organization as a whole had this attitude, not all the requests for re-licensing reach the executive team, far from it, there are layers upon layers of hierarchy to traverse before the request can reach someone who is receptive to the idea and can act on it.

I have worked in AAA studios and even internally they ignore many of these requests, not because of laziness but because they are just too stressed by their current projects to just give a look on the side.

Without internal information, any speculation about actual intentions is a pretty risqué exercise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eXeler0 View Post
(But legally speaking, downloading software that was released 25 years ago and impossible to buy from any official source for at least 20... May not be automatically legal... But , who's losing money on it? As long as you don't try to re-sell it, no court would care because how can you seek compensation if it hasn't been for sale for decades.)
Courts care when asked to and they have done so several times.

To answer your question: owners of originals are losing money on it because they cannot resale their originals as high because the free supply of pirate material reduces the prices.

I know it sounds horrible to hear but eBay prices are actually low compared to what they would be without pirate copies. Just look at the prices for consoles for which emulation is incomplete and copy protection still works, pretty high overall.

Given how few Amiga games originals there are out there compared to say Saturn ones, we are lucky that the prices are not higher and we have pirate copies to thank for that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eXeler0 View Post
That being said, I pretty much Only got original games back in the day, even on the C64 because I liked to have the boxes and the stuff that sometimes came inside). But I'm not going RainMan on anyone's ass for downloading abandonware ;-)
I am not going anything on anyone's ass unless I have a clear agreement that they are expecting me to.

I am just asking people to offer options while mentioning their legal subtleties. People can choose whatever they want once informed but it's important to call a cat a cat and not assume that one is fine with pirate copies.

As you said, it is important to also note that many games are actually legally available for download so WHDLoad or UAE do not necessarily mean piracy and are fantastic software in any case.
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Old 19 July 2016, 19:13   #18
markpjd
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Hi,

Copyright is a massive black hole. A lot of Games companies are reinforcing their copyrights on older games now due to remakes for the mobile/tablet markets.

Another factor is that, if a company had granted permission say a few years back, there is no guarantee that it still remains the case. I recently had to remove a game, despite the fact that I had gained permission for it some years back. The company had since been bought up, all rights transferred and they are planning to re-release said game for the current market.
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Old 19 July 2016, 19:50   #19
eXeler0
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Hi,

Copyright is a massive black hole. A lot of Games companies are reinforcing their copyrights on older games now due to remakes for the mobile/tablet markets.

Another factor is that, if a company had granted permission say a few years back, there is no guarantee that it still remains the case. I recently had to remove a game, despite the fact that I had gained permission for it some years back. The company had since been bought up, all rights transferred and they are planning to re-release said game for the current market.
Yes, stuff like that probably happens a lot but one has to ask himself.. is the Amiga version really competing financially with a mobile platform?
(Ok maybe with the 24 users of Windows mobile ;-).
Does a small nische vintage platform matter to an extent where it's necessary to take such actions?
Does the fact that you can play Doom on a HP printer mean you're loosing money on that platform when releasing the new Doom for PS4?

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Old 20 July 2016, 13:07   #20
Anubis
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Girls, stop fighting....

Amiga Forever is a waste of time. ClassicWB setup, if you already have roms is FAR cheaper (free) and works like a charm for WHDLoad (pre-installed) as well anything you wish to try on Amiga in emulation.

Another thing I would like to mention, at this time I am more emulating Amiga on RaspberryPi - RetroPie + UAE4ARM + ClassicWB Full + WHDLoad - closest to real Amiga that would cost you thousands in USA.

@OP - Are you close to Zion? I used to drive there (from W Michigan) twice a week about 11 years ago)
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