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Old 15 July 2016, 21:21   #21
Baboon
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I like the look of this a lot! I'm not sure I really need it though?

I'd probably get a mini snes one if they made it through!?
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Old 15 July 2016, 21:26   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReadOnlyCat View Post
I love the people saying "hey who cares when I can just pirate stuff?".

Well, that is the point, many of us do care about buying what we use.
If you want to pirate, then by all means do it but do not assume that is the only sane way to go. It is not.
Firefox Edit menu, find on page, "pirate".
The only post on this page that mentions pirate is yours, care to elaborate on who said anything about pirating everything?
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Old 15 July 2016, 21:49   #23
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I'd probably get a mini snes one if they made it through!?
Yup, if Nintendo was to reproduce some kind of SNES then I could possibly be interested...

The SNES was a great console and I had loads of games back in the day, unfortunately I gave everything to my younger cousins

...but emulation is very good for these older consoles

*** ReadOnlyCat; avert your eyes ***

Information about the "SNES DVD" I created here:

Original: http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=22669
Revamp: http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=77338
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Old 16 July 2016, 00:12   #24
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Originally Posted by ReadOnlyCat View Post
Even just the games are worth it. Go and try getting the originals on eBay for these 30 games and if you manage to get them under 300$ I will eat my boxers.
But these are not the originals. They're files of the exact same kind you get for free from your local ROMz site.
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Old 16 July 2016, 15:16   #25
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Originally Posted by idrougge View Post
But these are not the originals. They're files of the exact same kind you get for free from your local ROMz site.
So are your originals... And?

You perfectly know this is licensed work and that most of the price is the license, not the materials. If you feel entitled to them, then all good but do not pretend the bits told you you could copy them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ptyerman View Post
Firefox Edit menu, find on page, "pirate".
The only post on this page that mentions pirate is yours, care to elaborate on who said anything about pirating everything?
You wrote above my post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ptyerman View Post
Better off just getting a Raspberry PI, at least you will be able to run more games, and it's cheaper.
As it is your just paying for a miniature replica case. If it was cheaper it could be worth modding it and ripping out the innards to replace with a PI or similar.
Where you implying that one would get these "more games" legally?
If you own them already, sure, but you made no mention of that detail.

Given how often people mention getting games for free/illegally for the Amiga it seems reasonable to assume this is the implicit meaning. I assume you would have said otherwise if you did not want this to be misinterpreted?

Please accept my apologies if I assume wrongly but if you are of the opinion that legal options should be favored then maybe it is an opinion worth stating.
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Old 16 July 2016, 16:09   #26
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You seem to have failed to read the part where I said it should have had a cartridge slot under the fake flap so folk could play their ORIGINAL games! Apart from that, your post was the only one with the word "pirate", no one else mentioned it.
There is plenty of online shops selling both new and used NES games for very little money, or are they just "pirates" too?
As for the Raspberry PI, Nintendo have purposefully failed to give folk the option of playing their game cartridges on this remake, so why not?
Just another that comments without first READING and comprehending the previous posts, it seems to be getting a regular thing on this forum from some people.
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Old 16 July 2016, 16:28   #27
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It'll be interesting to see if it'll contain the original hardware in a single chip, or off-the-shelf parts running an emulator.
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Old 17 July 2016, 04:02   #28
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Originally Posted by ReadOnlyCat View Post
So are your originals... And?
Your definition of "originals" must differ from mine then. My original Super Mario had a package, a manual, some more paperwork and a cartridge containing the game. The reason it costs money is that it's a tangible product filled with nostalgia and of a limited supply and not some file you can crank out a million copies of in ten minutes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReadOnlyCat
You perfectly know this is licensed work and that most of the price is the license, not the materials. If you feel entitled to them, then all good but do not pretend the bits told you you could copy them.
You perfectly know that the price of a used NES game is not a factor of licence costs, but of supply and demand. That's why the price of a game may vary based purely on the country code printed on one of the flaps of the packaging.

And no, I will not feel bad for refusing to pay money to one of the world's richest companies when they re-re-re-release a 30 year old game that's sold in the millions already.

That's not a question of fairness or respect, that's just praying at the altar of capitalism.
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Old 17 July 2016, 05:43   #29
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Originally Posted by idrougge View Post
Your definition of "originals" must differ from mine then. My original Super Mario had a package, a manual, some more paperwork and a cartridge containing the game. The reason it costs money is that it's a tangible product filled with nostalgia and of a limited supply and not some file you can crank out a million copies of in ten minutes.
That may be the reason why our reptilian brains attribute value to originals but this does not change the fact that for the originals package, manual and the rest are negligible costs compared to development costs and distribution.

When I was developing for the PS1 in 1998, it already cost barely above one euro to manufacture the whole package, CD pressing, manual and jewel case included.
Moreover, distribution swallowed well above 50% of the retail price. Even the publisher got lucky to get 40%, not to mention anything about the developer.

So, no, the reason your originals cost money has nothing to do with the content.
Especially after 30 years when dev costs are long reimbursed, only distribution and license remain. And as you said license value also depends on supply and demand, if there is no demand, it's worthless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by idrougge View Post
You perfectly know that the price of a used NES game is not a factor of licence costs, but of supply and demand. That's why the price of a game may vary based purely on the country code printed on one of the flaps of the packaging.
I know it perfectly indeed. This is why the NES classic is so cheap.
Because the market, although large would not pay much more for 30 legitimate games. Otherwise the eBay retro market would be long dry for lack of supply if people were willing to pay the current prices of physical retro product (without manuals shall I say! ).

There is demand but not enough supply so costs of physical products are high simply because there is no alternative. Nintendo is actually factoring exactly your points by offering a physical alternative, equally official and guaranteed to work properly at a much reduced price, I am not sure what you are complaining about?

You get 30 games for 60$ plus a hardware which likely will be hacked to play more games than that anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by idrougge View Post
And no, I will not feel bad for refusing to pay money to one of the world's richest companies when they re-re-re-release a 30 year old game that's sold in the millions already.
That's not a question of fairness or respect, that's just praying at the altar of capitalism.
Well, you can argue all you want about politics but the law applies to everyone and also prevents Nintendo, Konami, EA, etc. as well from infringing on your IP if you had any. If you want these limits gone then they will be gone for you as well and others, including Mike Montgomery, the Cinemaware guys, John Hare, and so on.
You essentially would end up with eBay profiteers selling everyone's stuff in crappy packaging from China, a great race to the bottom with no guarantee on the quality of the content or that the owners are paid properly.

Your position is easy to defend when your income does not depend on selling your intellectual property but it does not make for something that would work out for small players in the end.

Also, you are sorely overestimating Nintendo's wealth, it is not even in the top 1000 of international companies by market value.
It has climbed a bit recently following pokemon Go, but not that much.

Last edited by ReadOnlyCat; 17 July 2016 at 06:16. Reason: Mentioned Pokemon Go share surge.
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Old 17 July 2016, 06:09   #30
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Originally Posted by ptyerman View Post
You seem to have failed to read the part where I said it should have had a cartridge slot under the fake flap so folk could play their ORIGINAL games! Apart from that, your post was the only one with the word "pirate", no one else mentioned it.
Yes, I must admit that the following sentence from you:
", or it could have had a SD card slot under there."
led me to think you implied to also allow running non legitimate copies (as well as Akira's mention of the Raspberry PI given that this is what most people use emulation for if I believe what I read here).

If that was not the case, then you have my apologies.
But on the EAB the vast majority of discussions about emulation bring forward the ability to play pirate games as a clear advantage, so yup, I am 100% willing to admit that this is not your case but once again, you must forgive me for assuming that you would not been advocating samely.

I do agree should sure have been more cautious given the first part of your sentence but you must admit your point of view is fairly unpresentative (as is mine).
Also, I sure hope you can find it in your heart to forgive me for such a mistake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ptyerman View Post
As for the Raspberry PI, Nintendo have purposefully failed to give folk the option of playing their game cartridges on this remake, so why not?
I am not opposed at all to emulation, on the contrary.
I just assumed that you too would be advocating it for piracy usage, which indeed as you have clarified was a misreading of mine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ptyerman View Post
Just another that comments without first READING and comprehending the previous posts, it seems to be getting a regular thing on this forum from some people.
Yeah, let us generalize my comments into a trend from "some people". Not only is this a slippery slope but also ignores the fact that I can fess up and admit my mistakes as I did above.

Can we leave these unsightly generalizations away from these forums?
Thanks.
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Old 17 July 2016, 15:53   #31
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Zero interest in this, you can do it all for free with emulators already. Why pay them to use their emulator? If it could play original carts and use original controllers etc then it might be worth it but as it is it's basically going to be something like a Raspberry Pi (but cost them way way less to make and be less powerful). They are basically selling a cheap emu box.. you do it yourself for less and it would be much better.
You have a point, but then again it's also a genuine Nintendo hardware / console, so I can promise you it will hold its value better than your Rasp Pi setup ;-) So for anyone interested in collecting actual hardware, this is appealing. But yes, actually playing original carts would have made this 10xtimes better...
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Old 17 July 2016, 17:11   #32
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You have a point, but then again it's also a genuine Nintendo hardware / console, so I can promise you it will hold its value better than your Rasp Pi setup ;-) So for anyone interested in collecting actual hardware, this is appealing. But yes, actually playing original carts would have made this 10xtimes better...
Well, you know, it is a step in the right direction.

Who knows what plans Nintendo has for the future? I mean, what we deem as obvious is not necessarily so for them: just look at how much time it took them to finally make mobile games.
Companies have sets of cultural values and habits which influence their actions and make it hard for them to do what we_perceive_ to be the right thing. But Nintendo's revenues were falling pretty steadily these past years so you can bet they were pretty nervous about not making mistakes.

Also, even the Atari Flashback was hacked to become capable of playing original cartridges so this one probably will be hacked similarly.
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Old 17 July 2016, 22:28   #33
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I might get it as a nerd gadget, but the games list is slightly disappointing. I mean they stick the two least interesting titles on there (Castlevania 2 and Zelda 2), but then not endlessly playable classics such as Snake Rattle & Roll, Gremlins 2 or Duck Tales. Still, its a pretty good pack of games otherwise. Fun for the Sunday evenings.
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Old 18 July 2016, 09:57   #34
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I think the interest of the mini NES is a good collector product of Nintendo (of course it's just emulation of the NES games)
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Old 18 July 2016, 21:44   #35
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You don't emulate having something really close to the original controller in your hands though
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Old 19 July 2016, 01:58   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReadOnlyCat View Post
That may be the reason why our reptilian brains attribute value to originals but this does not change the fact that for the originals package, manual and the rest are negligible costs compared to development costs and distribution.

When I was developing for the PS1 in 1998, it already cost barely above one euro to manufacture the whole package, CD pressing, manual and jewel case included.
Moreover, distribution swallowed well above 50% of the retail price. Even the publisher got lucky to get 40%, not to mention anything about the developer.
I wasn't the one who brought up the cost of the original cartridges, that was a certain cat. The cost of original NES games is not a factor of the cost of printing or manufacturing, nor does the cost of distribution or development matter. It's supply and demand, and what fuels demand is nostalgia and reptilian brain.

Attributing value to a licence on a ROM dump is another case of the reptilian brain at work, albeit under the reign of a different set of sentiments. There are no development costs or distribution costs involved here, what with the goods offered being assets that ended their commercial life a bit over twenty years ago. People will buy this out of the same nostalgia that makes others pay half a month's wages for an old game cartridge, save for a small minority that buy it out of some kind of moral obligation towards a commercial enterprise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReadOnlyCat
So, no, the reason your originals cost money has nothing to do with the content.
Especially after 30 years when dev costs are long reimbursed, only distribution and license remain. And as you said license value also depends on supply and demand, if there is no demand, it's worthless.
The licence costs Nintendo absolutely nothing in the case of Mario and Zelda. Shigeru Miyamoto isn't paid a single yen for this. Distribution costs would be the same regardless of the licence model.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReadOnlyCat
I know it perfectly indeed. This is why the NES classic is so cheap.
Because the market, although large would not pay much more for 30 legitimate games. Otherwise the eBay retro market would be long dry for lack of supply if people were willing to pay the current prices of physical retro product (without manuals shall I say! ).

There is demand but not enough supply so costs of physical products are high simply because there is no alternative. Nintendo is actually factoring exactly your points by offering a physical alternative, equally official and guaranteed to work properly at a much reduced price, I am not sure what you are complaining about?
Indeed. It's not the price I object to, it's your reasoning that it's value for money because it has got the Nintendo seal of approval, or that a copy on a flash memory is "original" in any way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReadOnlyCat
Well, you can argue all you want about politics but the law applies to everyone and also prevents Nintendo, Konami, EA, etc. as well from infringing on your IP if you had any. If you want these limits gone then they will be gone for you as well and others, including Mike Montgomery, the Cinemaware guys, John Hare, and so on.
Ah, but here I'm not with you. I don't give a fuck about owners. I only care about someone's moral rights, which the law tries to emulate as far as it can. Anyone can own something, but not everyone can create something.

There's no intrinsic value in an official licence for a product, unless you're a lawyer. If someone on Alibaba can make a better NES clone, then who am I to stand in the way of their entrepreneurship? It's not like it's hurting anyone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReadOnlyCat
Your position is easy to defend when your income does not depend on selling your intellectual property but it does not make for something that would work out for small players in the end.
Ah, but my income has always depended on selling my intellectual property. I'm not some kind of GNU supremacist. But that doesn't mean I support every action taken by every copyright holder, nor does it mean I support every possible interpretation of the Bern convention unconditionally. Copyright is a vehicle, not a means to its own end.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReadOnlyCat
Also, you are sorely overestimating Nintendo's wealth, it is not even in the top 1000 of international companies by market value.
It has climbed a bit recently following pokemon Go, but not that much.
I think you're underestimating ten billion dollars in cash.
http://www.gamesradar.com/nintendo-d...-its-got-bank/
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Old 19 July 2016, 03:30   #37
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I think we need to stop judging the Mini NES and wait till they release it. Lets see if its a emulator or NES-on-a-chip system , and see how it plays and feels. I own few all in one systems, from C64TV to Colecovision etc, and I enjoy them all. Some AtGames consoles are not the best like the Sega Genesis which have incorrect sound in them, so lets hope Nintendo will do it correctly.
Yes, I know I can play them on emulator and some of them do.
Personally I think it's a great idea.
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Old 19 July 2016, 12:21   #38
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If you can use save states as advertised it's an emulator for sure. It's the typical retro console gimmick as hundreds before, but this time with HDMI out. Might attract more people than the usual solutions with crappy composite out.
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Old 19 July 2016, 13:36   #39
Predseda
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I am going to want it. Just because of Bubble Bobble itself
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Old 19 July 2016, 14:09   #40
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I don't need this at all... Although I did just preorder it off amazon! Mwhhaha

Apparently it's the top video game preorder on Amazon now over things like Fifa, No Man's Sky, Cod etc? http://www.videogamer.com/news/ninte...st-seller.html

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