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Old 29 May 2016, 05:38   #21
idrougge
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Originally Posted by Zetr0 View Post
For under $10 - this seems very very reasonable - true if you Google the crap out of the internet and find these - but $10 (6.50 GBP)
You wouldn't have to google the crap out of anything if some people didn't claim their copyright to a 25 year old OS. Do you have to google much to use a C64 emulator?

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Originally Posted by Zetr0 View Post
Would be great if we could get a Classic Workbench Version - perhaps an extended license from Cloanto with a donation or something - I would certainly buy the shit out of that.
Why buy something you already own?
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Old 29 May 2016, 12:41   #22
Zetr0
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@idrougge

In response =)

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetr0
For under $10 - this seems very very reasonable - true if you Google the crap out of the internet and find these - but $10 (6.50 GBP)
You wouldn't have to google the crap out of anything if some people didn't claim their copyright to a 25 year old OS. Do you have to google much to use a C64 emulator?
Interestingly I was thinking at physical systems not emulation - but in response to the question - No you dont have to go to far to get a C64 emulator - but one doesn't have to go far for (Basic) Amiga, NeoGeo etc etc. - so I am unsure as to the point.

I will say though, as a collector of the 8bit Commies, there is a lot out there to buy and support like Jiffy DOS for instance - just because another platform is "more" open than in comparison to another really is a baseless argument. While they maybe of a similar vein they are different entities and different ages too.

The bit I think you miss here, is you are really arguing about price - would you be so aggrieved if it was a token $1.50 payment or even a $5 donation based for preservation?

I seriously doubt anyone would be - and it is at that point my friend, what value you place on the software is your own perspective.

6.50 saves me a lot of time - and arguably NOW one could obtain lots of these cheap (licenses) *if they are transferable* - repackage the HDF's with Classic / Better Workbench - and arguably legally sell them.

Isn't that what the community wants - updated OS's with low bar of knowledge entry and a lot less fuss?

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetr0
Would be great if we could get a Classic Workbench Version - perhaps an extended license from Cloanto with a donation or something - I would certainly buy the shit out of that.
Why buy something you already own?
1. Convenience in regards to the digital down load of the OS
2. I don't own the work BloodWych put in on Classic Workbench, as such would be nice to donate something for his time and creative efforts
3. I will be honest and ask the same thing of myself when I log into gog.com - and still buy that set of lucas games I already own the originals of!

Since the legal ambiguity is clearer - it does free up a lot of potential ideas for a lot of projects - and that is where I would spend my time rather than to stamp ones feet into the ground and demand it should be free.

Even AROS isn't FREE - many people have spent a lot more just to get one small part of it working (they are my Heroes!) - it just shifted the cost from the end user.

Wouldn't the community love to see the option to legally purchase a Classic Workbench and Better Workbench customized HDF(s) for sale - keep the prices low - around $15 or $10 + donation - instant download from the internet - everyone wins and is still cheaper than my WHDLoad license -

In all truth $10 can be a lot of money especially if you don't have it, yet $10 is absolutely fuck all in regards to any costs in this hobby - it would probably cost me more to buy working floppies to put the ADF's onto.

Last edited by Zetr0; 29 May 2016 at 12:52.
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Old 30 May 2016, 12:05   #23
idrougge
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Originally Posted by Zetr0 View Post
Interestingly I was thinking at physical systems not emulation - but in response to the question - No you dont have to go to far to get a C64 emulator - but one doesn't have to go far for (Basic) Amiga, NeoGeo etc etc. - so I am unsure as to the point.
I was thinking of emulation since physical systems already have an OS and a licence to boot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetr0
The bit I think you miss here, is you are really arguing about price - would you be so aggrieved if it was a token $1.50 payment or even a $5 donation based for preservation?

I seriously doubt anyone would be - and it is at that point my friend, what value you place on the software is your own perspective.
I wouldn't mind if someone paid me a token amount for that rough thousand of disks I've preserved for TOSEC. But the value placed on someone's work is often decided by the worker himself.

That's why People pay Cloanto something for doing nothing and pay Toni Wilen nothing for doing something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetr0
6.50 saves me a lot of time - and arguably NOW one could obtain lots of these cheap (licenses) *if they are transferable* - repackage the HDF's with Classic / Better Workbench - and arguably legally sell them.
Go ahead, pay me 6.50 and I will personally dump any Workbench version for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetr0
Isn't that what the community wants - updated OS's with low bar of knowledge entry and a lot less fuss?
And isn't that exactly what commercial interests prevent? If it weren't for Amiga Inc. and Cloanto, you could download a one-click version of WinUAE with your OS of choice.

The Amiga community is interesting. In one end, people are threatening to burn their Indivisions and ACA accelerators because Jens bought the rights Picasso96. In the other hand, people are begging to pay several times for an OS they already own a licence to and which hasn't seen development in 20 years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetr0
1. Convenience in regards to the digital down load of the OS
Any download that requires payment can only seem more convenient than one which does not by forcibly making free downloads difficult.
So far, no-one has come up with a more convenient way to download Firefox, despite the obvious market demand for a way to pay for downloads.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetr0
2. I don't own the work BloodWych put in on Classic Workbench, as such would be nice to donate something for his time and creative efforts
Since BloodWych is a gentleman, he knows that the work he put in on Classic Workbench is no greater than that put into any single component in Classic Workbench, and receiving payment for packaging a Workbench would morally oblige him to split his income with those developers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetr0
Since the legal ambiguity is clearer - it does free up a lot of potential ideas for a lot of projects - and that is where I would spend my time rather than to stamp ones feet into the ground and demand it should be free.
No, what really hinders a lot of potential project is the fact that the copyright holders earn money on people like you. And the legal ambiguity of ClassicWB would be bigger if money was involved the author would have to check with the author of that rainbow backdrop program if it's OK for him to earn money on his program.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetr0
Even AROS isn't FREE - many people have spent a lot more just to get one small part of it working (they are my Heroes!) - it just shifted the cost from the end user.
I don't mind that. I don't mind paying for the work that goes on in OS4 or MorphOS. If I ever decide I need a new version of Personal Paint, I'd pay for that. But bugger if I'm going to pay for AmigaOS 3.1 or someone's fancy Workbench installation. It does so much damage to new developments.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetr0
Wouldn't the community love to see the option to legally purchase a Classic Workbench and Better Workbench customized HDF(s) for sale - keep the prices low - around $15 or $10 + donation - instant download from the internet - everyone wins and is still cheaper than my WHDLoad license
Keep the price low, like zero. There is no party involved in ClassicWB or BetterWB that is more involved than any other party. It's a collection of small things.
WHDLoad is also a collection of small things, and Bernd acknowledges that by parting out the fees to the developers of the WHDLoad slaves.
And you know what? Bernd forfeited that licence last christmas. Cloanto could very well do the same thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetr0
In all truth $10 can be a lot of money especially if you don't have it, yet $10 is absolutely fuck all in regards to any costs in this hobby - it would probably cost me more to buy working floppies to put the ADF's onto.
In the age of the internet, you always compete with free. Why would someone play an Amiga game when it costs lots of money (try to explain that to someone from outside this hobby) while the Nintendo or Sega emulator is free? What happens is that classic Amiga games will be known to the world through the PC version because DOSbox is free and UAE is not. What happens is that you can't pay GOG to play those Amiga games you already own.
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Old 30 May 2016, 16:01   #24
spannernick
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I only download copyright stuff from torrent cos I can't afford what they are asking for it otherwise i would buy it,$49.99 is about 34.16 I just don't have that sort of money,I will not go into why.Same with the $29.99 is about 20.51 sound good but just don't have the money,and I don't want to buy Workbench when I allready have it,and it's a waste of my money.(140 a fortnight don't go far)

sorry to ask this here but what is the difference between the Premium and the Plus Edition,I know you get a dvd with the Premium but over 10 more for a DVD and videos is abit much,You don't get the videos with the Plus Edition..?

Anyway back to topic..sorry..I think the videos should not be copyrighted,they should be out there for the world to remember the Amiga,it's part of history.I like looking up old Amiga videos on youtube I have some on my youtube channel,what will they be block next..it's silly.

Last edited by spannernick; 30 May 2016 at 16:22.
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Old 30 May 2016, 19:42   #25
desiv
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...I know you get a dvd with the Premium but over 10 more for a DVD and videos is abit much.
It's all perspective...
I think it's a bit much to pay $12 to see a movie nowadays..
That leaves me a few options..
-Pay the money anyway..
-Don't pay and don't see the movie..
-Take some other option to see the movie without paying..
(Torrent, sneak into the theater, etc..)

Not going to say anyone of them is wrong.

But I don't begrudge the owners (not necessarily creators) of the content from trying to make money.

Just means I won't be seeing it right away (or ever)..

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Old 01 June 2016, 13:31   #26
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I don't go to see a movie I wait untill it come out on dvd and use Amazon to watch it,but a lot of the films are old and new ones you have to pay for..bad Amazon(Lovefilm),you thing $12 is a lot,well it's like 20 here..

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Originally Posted by desiv View Post
It's all perspective...
I think it's a bit much to pay $12 to see a movie nowadays..
That leaves me a few options..
-Pay the money anyway..
-Don't pay and don't see the movie..
-Take some other option to see the movie without paying..
(Torrent, sneak into the theater, etc..)

Not going to say anyone of them is wrong.

But I don't begrudge the owners (not necessarily creators) of the content from trying to make money.

Just means I won't be seeing it right away (or ever)..

desiv
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Old 02 June 2016, 23:07   #27
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I just had my Amiga commercial video removed from Youtube, the one with the foetus.

This video is from 1985 and Cloanto didn't even produce it so I find it odd that they could do this.
 
Old 03 June 2016, 00:17   #28
desiv
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This video is from 1985 and Cloanto didn't even produce it so I find it odd that they could do this.
You don't have to have produced something to own the rights to it...

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Old 03 June 2016, 02:31   #29
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Yes but it's a commercial for crying out loud, and it only serves to advertise the Amiga. So what's their problem ??!
 
Old 03 June 2016, 04:00   #30
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I can understand them wanting to block selling of software or ROMs, but songs on You Tube? WTF! That is INSANE! They are taking it too far. Please for the LOVE of Amiga, be reasonable.
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Old 03 June 2016, 05:11   #31
desiv
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I do agree its a mistake...
Just that they probably have the legal right to make that mistake.. ;-)

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Old 03 June 2016, 16:51   #32
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This is bullshit, why are they erasing all Amiga history materials from Youtube? Are they planning on selling this to people? What is their deal, seriously!

It's incredibly upsetting and there HAS to be a way to make them stop.
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Old 03 June 2016, 18:47   #33
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It's incredibly upsetting and there HAS to be a way to make them stop.
You can buy the rights from them and then release them yourself..



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Old 03 June 2016, 21:02   #34
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I don't see big brands removing advertisement from displays like in museums, online and whatnot.

Do they own it? apparently (and let me remark that adjective), yes.
But does that mean they should do this? What is the point? What is their benefit , or the disadvantage or harm caused upon them by letting an old ad being online?

There's some more info here, I know it's for a different site but this could apply anywhere since it's related to law (at least US law):
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/C...Advertisements

Seems like stuff prior to 1989 COULD be put in the public domain as long as " they have no separate copyright notice and if their copyright was not registered with the U.S. Copyright Office within 5 years of publication. "

So I would look into that 1985 video. Also, how far does Cloanto's license go? Can they actually have claims world wide to everything? Be mindful that copyright law differs from country to country.

More from Commons:
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/C..._and_copyright
According to their guidelines, an advertisement on video would not be OK because of what it contains and I guess this is the fine line at which Cloanto grasps, but I still question the extent they can go to and more importantly, their fucking reasons.
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