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Old 24 May 2016, 16:15   #141
wawa
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Originally Posted by daxb View Post
They are both just examples. There are some more but the mentioned users wrote (propagandize) here.
mmhm.. so maybe you can honestly stand up to your claims and link me to a post in this thread where i "propagandize" some evil thing..
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Old 24 May 2016, 16:38   #142
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I must admit, with everything that's going on in Amiga land lately, I feel like throwing in the towel and walking away/selling up. Think I'll take a back seat for a while and see how things pan out.
This whole thing just stinks of greed and sour grapes from certain people, about time certain folk started growing up!
Why would you do that?

In worst case scenario, the Vampire even without P96 is the most powerful accelerator at an affordable price.
Letting actions of others ruin your expirience seems a bit odd. Who cares what others do or say?
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Old 24 May 2016, 16:51   #143
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most users obviously want it how it is otherwise they would think different. Whoever buys P96 will not buy it for charity but to make profit. Depending on the person/company there might even be strategic/political reasons to do it. None of this is primarly to make users happy, it is simply business. Clever boys like Daxb with their obviously superior knowledge and experience knows what is good so when they want it they will exactly get what they deserve, perhaps even more than they asked for. But that is not my problem anymore.
That is an example what I mean when I wrote "guesswork, wrong, attacks and meanings based on prejudices". I did zero posts but read all of it at that a1k.org thread and didn`t wrote somewhere else something that could confirm your statement. If you judge over something or someone you should need to prove it. Not just guessing. I think that you and everybody else expect that also from others.
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Old 24 May 2016, 16:57   #144
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That is an example what I mean when I wrote "guesswork, wrong, attacks and meanings based on prejudices". I did zero posts but read all of it at that a1k.org thread and didn`t wrote somewhere else something that could confirm your statement. If you judge over something or someone you should need to prove it. Not just guessing. I think that you and everybody else expect that also from others.
you mean someone pays f.e. 10.000 EUR for the sources and gives it away for free for charity?

we will see... but this was the last response to you from me, it just sucks in meantime
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Old 24 May 2016, 17:17   #145
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mmhm.. so maybe you can honestly stand up to your claims and link me to a post in this thread where i "propagandize" some evil thing..
I feared already that the word propagandize wasn`t a good choice by me and too generalizing. So please ignore it. On the other hand I never wrote that you ""propagandize" some evil thing". Thats your interpretation. I think nobody here would like if we discuss about posts from another forum and I wouldn`t like it. Maybe its a good idea if I stop now.
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Old 24 May 2016, 17:35   #146
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I feared already that the word propagandize wasn`t a good choice by me and too generalizing. So please ignore it.
so when called upon your statements you simply back off and demand i ignore it? if you feel you were wrong, how about to execuse yourself?

Quote:
On the other hand I never wrote that you ""propagandize" some evil thing". Thats your interpretation.
so you wrote what? and what is my interpretation about it?

Quote:
I think nobody here would like if we discuss about posts from another forum and I wouldn`t like it. Maybe its a good idea if I stop now.
but you have started it. so, there is no post in this thread i wrote you could try to crucify me about. now its about another thread on another forum. okay. so whats wrong about my posts in that thread you mentioned?

because even thor finally admitted, that his consideration about opening the sources of p96 upon some bounty/crowd founding campain might not be as dangerous as he initially portrayed that. the thing is, now is probably too late.

Last edited by wawa; 24 May 2016 at 19:34.
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Old 24 May 2016, 18:32   #147
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Why would you do that?

In worst case scenario, the Vampire even without P96 is the most powerful accelerator at an affordable price.
Letting actions of others ruin your expirience seems a bit odd. Who cares what others do or say?
Because I'm sick of all the f**king falling out over 20 year old hardware and software, every forum you read somebody is at it.
I've spent the last year battling with f**king cancer and that is depressing enough without all the drama around my favourite platform.
I don't care about the Vampire right now, this is about P96 and the future of Amiga RTG. You, me and everyone else SHOULD care what happens about it, and if there is going to be a replacement.
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Old 24 May 2016, 18:35   #148
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Because I'm sick of all the f**king falling out over 20 year old hardware and software, every forum you read somebody is at it.
I've spent the last year battling with f**king cancer and that is depressing enough without all the drama around my favourite platform.
I don't care about the Vampire right now, this is about P96 and the future of Amiga RTG. You, me and everyone else SHOULD care what happens about it, and if there is going to be a replacement.
sorry to hear that, hopefully you are better now

compared to that RTG and P96 are not that important
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Old 24 May 2016, 18:45   #149
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Because I'm sick of all the f**king falling out over 20 year old hardware and software, every forum you read somebody is at it.
I've spent the last year battling with f**king cancer and that is depressing enough without all the drama around my favourite platform.
I don't care about the Vampire right now, this is about P96 and the future of Amiga RTG. You, me and everyone else SHOULD care what happens about it, and if there is going to be a replacement.
Oh I care about the future of the platform, but after joining the apollo-team IRC channel, if Im curious about something, I usually get a reply there eventually.
Forums are seldomly good for transmitting exchanges, because the tone and intent usually gets lost in the words.

IRC is better since there you get clarification if you misunderstand something.
Another thing; I usually just read the posts, and doesnt really care what they say unless its someone with solid facts, and not like most of us; speculation.

Anyhow, good luck with recovery from cancer. Get well mate!
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Old 24 May 2016, 19:00   #150
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Thanks. I'm OK now I think as far as the Cancer is concerned, just some nasty after affects from the radio therapy. I can get rather grumpy from it!
Radiation poisoning isn't very nice, I can tell you!
Back to the point though, it just really gets my back up when someone tries to bring something good to our Amiga's and the greed and desist crowd step in to try and stop it. It's always the same culprits too so their agenda is quite clear.
I can really see Olafs point where he says he feels like walking away from it all, he's not on his own.
The thing is, where do the greed and desist crowd think there money is coming from after they cause everyone to leave? It makes no sense whatsoever!
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Old 24 May 2016, 19:19   #151
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Man, this thread is a pleasure to read isn't it.. Here's my own long, pointless and incoherent rant. Enjoy. :-)

Before the announcement of HDMI output on the Vampire, how many A500, 600, 1200 owners cared about P96?
Now, it seems, we are at the dawn of the battle for the Amiga 68k's RTG future...
Talk about a storm in a tea cup.

To whoever it applies: wake up folks, every single user of Amiga 68k is also using some kind of superior technology to get actual work done, be it a modern computer or a smartphone. NO ONE *needs* their Amiga to do any sort of commercial stuff.
Stop seeing it as a cow you can milk long after it died.
If you still feel you are the rightful owner of the tech, by all means, make it easy to license this 20 years old Tech.. PayPal for a license key thanx, why not.

But then suddenly someone shows up and triggers the ugly debate for the last week or so..
Hmm..
Why would anyone after 20 years (but just shortly after Vampire adopts it as standard driver) suddenly anounce the plan to buy the p96 license (as opposed to any other "solution") and threaten with legal action instead of simply asking for a small license fee for this ancient piece of code? To what end..? well...
I have noooo idea who that could be ;-)

Who has something to lose if Vampire becomes a success?
Who is selling products that compete with Vampire?

Who knows, right?

But then it is clear that there are other ways to do this. And the result is that the community gets more fragmented by the minute.
Who benefits from that?

The whole old A500-1200, CD32 community who doesnt own a Vampire don't give a crap about P96. Once the AGA emulation is done, the SAGA driver might not need P96 or any other official RTG driver, so this move for hijacking P96 only buys some time and alienates part of the community. Great long term strategy...

The truth is out there. But why is it hiding in the shadows...







Skickat från min HTC One via Tapatalk
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Old 24 May 2016, 19:28   #152
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Man, this thread is a pleasure to read isn't it..
It has the aroma of 1994 - with a touch of Mehdi Ali stirring the cauldron!

Last edited by Paul_s; 24 May 2016 at 19:34.
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Old 24 May 2016, 19:29   #153
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This isn't just about the Vampire though, it's about anything that uses RTG on the Amiga.
I agree the post arrived at a opportunistic time from suspected party as not only the Vampire, but also Matze's RTG card and the Zorro RTG card from mntmn have also just become available.
Either P96 or some workable replacement is required, and if some party's make it too difficult to use P96 I don't think it would be long before a replacement appeared.
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Old 24 May 2016, 19:31   #154
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Because I'm sick of all the f**king falling out over 20 year old hardware and software
well, thats the reailty of the situation, always was, ridiculous i know. but amiga legacy was semi worthless the day before commodore went belly up, and everybody knows that. nevertheless no heavier battles in computer industry have been carried out above such a rottening corpse as here!

now. we are caring about these issues.. ocassionally.. dont we? i just fired up my a4k to see how that comes along with what i have proposed to heiroglyph as an entry point, to start with a replacement considerations, and beyond one or two known issues its fine.

im not your positive guy, that shall be known so far, but i have made my choices sd soon as i reailzed the implications of policies, amiga community is ridden with and im positive a solution will be found. perhaps rather later than sonner, but the way is the goal. right?
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Old 24 May 2016, 19:32   #155
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This isn't just about the Vampire though, it's about anything that uses RTG on the Amiga.
I agree the post arrived at a opportunistic time from suspected party as not only the Vampire, but also Matze's RTG card and the Zorro RTG card from mntmn have also just become available.
Either P96 or some workable replacement is required, and if some party's make it too difficult to use P96 I don't think it would be long before a replacement appeared.
very right.
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Old 24 May 2016, 19:36   #156
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@eXeler0

+1

I agree to you... you only forget one thing that RTG is not only important for Vampire but also FPGA Arcade, any current or future fpga based graphic card and so on. So controlling it gives some power to you. On the other side you risk of course alienating parts of the community.
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Old 24 May 2016, 19:45   #157
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@wawa
I have been keeping up with the posts on amiga.org from heiroglyph, and I agree it is the way to go I think. Best of luck.
I'm just grateful that there is still people passionate enough about the Amiga to make things like this happen as it is beyond my skills to do so.
I will keep watching and anticipating a breakthrough.
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Old 24 May 2016, 19:47   #158
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Who is selling products that compete with Vampire?
to my knowledge, none so far. but does that matter?
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Old 24 May 2016, 19:53   #159
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Bugger! I just went to mntmn's site to purchase one of his RTG cards and his first batch has sold out already, will have to wait now.
It goes to show though that the demand is there.
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Old 24 May 2016, 21:03   #160
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Bugger! I just went to mntmn's site to purchase one of his RTG cards and his first batch has sold out already, will have to wait now.
It goes to show though that the demand is there.
he has only been advertsed it on a1k so far i know. it was taken immediatelly. but this is an early adopters version, development batch. in case it succeeds others will follow, a bit more expensive as it seems, but im glad there is interest to contribute. lukas sounds like a pretty cool guy, and is imho another valuable member won for the community. actually i have a feeling we are growing, not shrinking, at lest here in berlin.
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