English Amiga Board


Go Back   English Amiga Board > Main > Amiga scene

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 05 February 2016, 23:48   #41
8bitbubsy
Registered User

8bitbubsy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Norway
Age: 28
Posts: 1,254
Send a message via MSN to 8bitbubsy
Quote:
Originally Posted by hooverphonique View Post
try looking it up, and you will find, it is actually an amiga-related thing
Or amigo-related.
8bitbubsy is offline  
AdSense AdSense  
Old 07 February 2016, 22:45   #42
eXeler0
Registered User

eXeler0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Sweden
Age: 43
Posts: 1,422
Gunnar mentioned he wanted P96 to be *integrated* as a chunky mode in SAGA rather than a parallell mode. Even controllable by the Copper.
Would that require any changes to the current Copper?
In the old Natami specs, lots of Blitter improvements were listed, the Copper... not so much..
eXeler0 is offline  
Old 07 February 2016, 23:15   #43
Mrs Beanbag
Glastonbridge Software
Mrs Beanbag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Edinburgh/Scotland
Posts: 2,202
if it used the original 8 "bitplane" pointers, it could be exciting to be able to combine 8 different chunky buffers in programmable ways, so an RGB display would be synthesisable out of 3 "byteplanes" by setting a colour multiplier for each and an addition operation. Lots of weird and wonderful effects could be programmed!
Mrs Beanbag is offline  
Old 08 February 2016, 01:29   #44
IanP
Registered User

 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Bristol/UK
Posts: 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by eXeler0 View Post
Gunnar mentioned he wanted P96 to be *integrated* as a chunky mode in SAGA rather than a parallell mode. Even controllable by the Copper.
Would that require any changes to the current Copper?
In the old Natami specs, lots of Blitter improvements were listed, the Copper... not so much..
The copper is incredibly simple all it does is wait for the raster to reach specific points and at those points move some data into custom chipset registers as determined by the copper list programmer. The power of the copper is what the data in it's lists are and where it puts it. The programmer can manipulate the chipset in very clever ways. The copper control register contains a single bit to restrict which registers it can access. A SAGA copper could conceivably add one or more bits to restrict access to some SAGA hardware registers.
IanP is offline  
Old 08 February 2016, 10:43   #45
grond
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Germany
Posts: 385
I'm not sure about the detailed implementation but the way I understood it the copper is supposed to remain the same for compatibility reasons but a second coppy is planned that can deal with higher resolutions and access a wider range of registers. E.g. there are going to be wide palette registers that are going to be accessible without bank switching. I'm not sure whether these registers will be a second palette for the rtg screen or whether they will be a second port to one and the same palette, though.
grond is offline  
Old 23 February 2016, 09:50   #46
Foebane
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Cardiff, UK
Posts: 599
Quote:
Originally Posted by eXeler0 View Post
It has "half-assed" written all over it..
You do NOT diss the great AGA God in front of ME, sir! I don't care if it has design flaws, they're easily compensated for by faster processors anyway! AGA allowed the Amiga to be up there with the PC on the Demoscene, whereas it would've failed years ago. Besides, I just LUUUURVE those subtle shades and millions of colours!
Foebane is offline  
Old 23 February 2016, 10:57   #47
eXeler0
Registered User

eXeler0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Sweden
Age: 43
Posts: 1,422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foebane View Post
You do NOT diss the great AGA God in front of ME, sir! I don't care if it has design flaws, they're easily compensated for by faster processors anyway! AGA allowed the Amiga to be up there with the PC on the Demoscene, whereas it would've failed years ago. Besides, I just LUUUURVE those subtle shades and millions of colours!
I told you to stay off the mushrooms man 😆
No but seriously.. If Commodore had some kind of decent R&D budget, and the A1200 would have gotten something closer to AAA and ppl wouldn't have abandoned it so fast when Doom arrived on PCs.
If you look at it objectively, yes it's improved over ECS.. but honestly consider the time frame between the two in relation to the improvement in what we got and then it's not such an impressive achievement. .. The PC graphics market was picking up pace at the time.. it was not a good time to sit on your ass and hope for the best from your delayed 5 year development plans...
eXeler0 is offline  
Old 23 February 2016, 13:54   #48
sandruzzo
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Italy/Rome
Posts: 1,109
32bit blitter and copper with more mhz will give us a lot of power. In the old days if Aga had 32bit blit copper and blitter running a 14mhz would allow us to have chunky copper 1x1.
sandruzzo is offline  
Old 23 February 2016, 14:25   #49
invent
pixels

invent's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Australia
Age: 46
Posts: 168
Super AGA to me sounds like the ability to have:

1024x768 or similar resolutions
256 colour palettes (maybe independent to each parallax layer)
Big full colour sprites

No doubt it would be great to also have doom type games.

While anti-aliasing / alpha channel type graphics is nice, maybe not as essential.
invent is offline  
Old 23 February 2016, 14:39   #50
OlafSch
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Nuernberg
Posts: 456
Quote:
Originally Posted by eXeler0 View Post
I told you to stay off the mushrooms man ��
No but seriously.. If Commodore had some kind of decent R&D budget, and the A1200 would have gotten something closer to AAA and ppl wouldn't have abandoned it so fast when Doom arrived on PCs.
If you look at it objectively, yes it's improved over ECS.. but honestly consider the time frame between the two in relation to the improvement in what we got and then it's not such an impressive achievement. .. The PC graphics market was picking up pace at the time.. it was not a good time to sit on your ass and hope for the best from your delayed 5 year development plans...
Full RTG support including API (CybergraphX 3) is much more important than AGA (even if improved)

something like SuperAGA would be cool for some demo coders and to run old software. New software certainly will work with RTG
OlafSch is offline  
Old 23 February 2016, 14:56   #51
modrobert
old bearded fool

modrobert's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Bangkok
Age: 50
Posts: 425
Quote:
Originally Posted by invent View Post
Super AGA to me sounds like the ability to have:

1024x768 or similar resolutions
256 colour palettes (maybe independent to each parallax layer)
Big full colour sprites

No doubt it would be great to also have doom type games.

While anti-aliasing / alpha channel type graphics is nice, maybe not as essential.
Yes, I've always been impressed by the sprite hardware design in NeoGeo.
modrobert is offline  
Old 23 February 2016, 16:58   #52
Samurai_Crow
Total Chaos forever!

Samurai_Crow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Ft. Collins, CO USA
Age: 43
Posts: 919
Send a message via Yahoo to Samurai_Crow
Why settle for less than 720p in this day and age?
Samurai_Crow is offline  
Old 23 February 2016, 21:58   #53
eXeler0
Registered User

eXeler0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Sweden
Age: 43
Posts: 1,422
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai_Crow View Post
Why settle for less than 720p in this day and age?
768 is more than 720 😆
No but some might prefer 4:3 or 5:4 ratio to 16:9 considering no Amiga software is made for widescreen. As for performance, if you can shuffle around 1024x768, 1280x720 wouldn't be a problem either.

Back to SAGA..-ish. ..
Could someone with the proper knowledge explain to me how Atari implemented it's 16 bit chunky mode alongside the usual bitplanes in the Falcon? Was it a good solution or simply a completely separate screen mode? Lessons to be learned when adding Chunky mode to (S)AGA?
eXeler0 is offline  
Old 24 February 2016, 01:33   #54
kolla
Registered User
kolla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Trondheim, Norway
Posts: 767
Quote:
Originally Posted by OlafSch View Post
Full RTG support including API (CybergraphX 3) is much more important than AGA (even if improved)

something like SuperAGA would be cool for some demo coders and to run old software. New software certainly will work with RTG
That's the issue right there, most relevant software is old and does not work well on RTG. My wish for SAGA is something compatible with AGA, but faster and with access to more RAM. That means, for example, something like 1920x1080 HAM8 modes for programs like Deluxe Paint and Brilliance.
kolla is offline  
Old 24 February 2016, 01:42   #55
kolla
Registered User
kolla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Trondheim, Norway
Posts: 767
This (now old) video shows software (DOpus' image viewer) using more than 2MB of chipram
[ Show youtube player ]
kolla is offline  
Old 24 February 2016, 12:05   #56
jbenam
Italian Amiga Zealot

 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Italy
Age: 29
Posts: 1,226
Quote:
Originally Posted by kolla View Post
This (now old) video shows software (DOpus' image viewer) using more than 2MB of chipram
[ Show youtube player ]
I remember being really excited when seeing that 6 years ago (wow!) and I just thought how I couldn't wait to get my hands on one of those...

Well, turns out it was just "two more weeks" like almost everything in the Amiga world

Kudos to the Apollo Team for ACTUALLY delivering something!
jbenam is offline  
Old 25 February 2016, 01:12   #57
kolla
Registered User
kolla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Trondheim, Norway
Posts: 767
That is true. I am a little on the fence, for a number of reasons. I do have A600s, but there are probably other people out there who are more excited about the Vampire than I am, and production is limited In other news, Minimig AGA core 1.2 just arrived for MIST, with tons of improvements
kolla is offline  
Old 25 February 2016, 14:22   #58
Mrs Beanbag
Glastonbridge Software
Mrs Beanbag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Edinburgh/Scotland
Posts: 2,202
Quote:
Originally Posted by kolla View Post
That's the issue right there, most relevant software is old and does not work well on RTG. My wish for SAGA is something compatible with AGA, but faster and with access to more RAM. That means, for example, something like 1920x1080 HAM8 modes for programs like Deluxe Paint and Brilliance.
but RTG means "retargettable graphics" which is supposed to be an API that is agnostic of the underlying graphics hardware from the programmers point of view, right? So as long as SAGA is powerful enough it could be both RTG and compatible.
Mrs Beanbag is offline  
Old 26 February 2016, 01:29   #59
TjLaZer
Registered User
TjLaZer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Tacoma, WA USA
Age: 46
Posts: 1,171
Super AGA shouldn't be much more different that AGA anyway, as anything more is where P96 comes in!
TjLaZer is offline  
Old 26 February 2016, 09:42   #60
eXeler0
Registered User

eXeler0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Sweden
Age: 43
Posts: 1,422
Quote:
Originally Posted by TjLaZer View Post
Super AGA shouldn't be much more different that AGA anyway, as anything more is where P96 comes in!
Except... If I understand Gunnar 's vision properly, he does not want to simply slap on P96 along side original AGA and be done with it. He wants to improve what's already there and implementing P96 as a chunky "mode" of SAGA. Meaning there would not be a "either this or the other" scenario but rather an integrated solution that can be mixed and e.g. accessible from the Copper and used in combination with an improved Blitter.
Whether I got this right or if this really is what we get in the end remains to be seen of course....
eXeler0 is offline  
AdSense AdSense  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
apollo-core forum HanSolo support.Other 4 16 September 2015 08:51
Premiere by Core Design Gzegzolka support.Games 3 08 January 2015 00:47
SuperAGA or AAA? zevs request.UAE Wishlist 11 04 December 2014 17:59
'SuperAGA' for WinUAE? zevs request.UAE Wishlist 13 14 October 2008 16:55

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 15:05.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Page generated in 0.29342 seconds with 11 queries