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Old 05 January 2016, 18:06   #21
crasbe
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Originally Posted by SMF View Post
There seems to be a lot of lawyers here. Can anyone explain in layman terms for me how they can keep their intellectual property without defending it?
I'm no lawyer, but in Germany for example, intellectual property is protected by the Urheberrecht, which only(!) expires 70 years after the death of the creator (or in a project with many creators, 70 years after the death of the LAST creator alive).
You don't have to defend it and you can decide to claim your rights after 20 years of ignoring violations.
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Old 05 January 2016, 18:10   #22
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You know, if Hyperion were truly smart, they could open-source the 3.1 code under a different license, with the proviso that any forks of the code either cannot be called "AmigaOS" or cannot have a designation of version 4.x or higher, or can be compiled with PPC support or some restrictions like that. It would really be nice if my Amiga 500 or Amiga 3000 could get a proper overhaul to its outdated OS legally. I mean, AmigaOS 4.x won't run on a bog standard A500, so anyone who has one won't buy a copy of their OS anyway. Right?
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Old 05 January 2016, 19:27   #23
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Dear Hyperion,

I don't speak for the collective, but IMHO, these boards are dominated by 68k Amiga enthusiasts using 3.x.
While your efforts with OS4 are valiant in their own right, they are of *very little* interest to a lot of us.
IMO not much interesting has happened to OS3.x thanks to Hyperion in the last 20 years. Whatever reasons you feel you have to protect OS3.1 because you have used them for writing OS4, they seem very close to irrelevant to the 68k community. If some other company stole these sources to create a product to compete with OS4.x I would understand your concern, now its just generic lawyer talk with little connection to the reality of the situation.
Frankly, the OS would have been much better off if it had been open sourced 20 years ago.
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Old 05 January 2016, 20:10   #24
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Hyperion, instead of spending time writing these things, even if it's your complete right, you should spend it developping AOS...

Last edited by TuKo; 05 January 2016 at 21:08.
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Old 05 January 2016, 20:55   #25
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Removed it from the EAB FTP. Please do not upload it here again. I have better things to do then cleaning up because some people ask nice once before threatening to take legal actions.
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Old 05 January 2016, 22:42   #26
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AmigaOS 3.1 Source Code leak

First of all, once the source code gets leaked you cant put it back in the bottle. There are 5 or 6 current websites and download sites that have the code. No Im not telling do like I did and do the work. Second, why would anyone in their right mind try to re-create an obsolete OS for an obsolete platform? Open Source it, besides there is NOTHING in there thats an industry secret and that hasnt been done BETTER by now.
 
Old 06 January 2016, 00:05   #27
Korodny
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Originally Posted by SMF View Post
There seems to be a lot of lawyers here. Can anyone explain in layman terms for me how they can keep their intellectual property without defending it?
You need to defend Trademarks to avoid loosing them. Copyright, on the other hand, doesn't just vanish if you don't sue anybody who steals your work.

Not to mention they don't own the shit, they just licensed it.

Last edited by Korodny; 06 January 2016 at 00:12.
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Old 06 January 2016, 00:06   #28
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Thank you, that made my day.
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Old 06 January 2016, 00:09   #29
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All you 68k guys better not post over on amiga.org. I just got banned for a week for trolling. This is the first time in my life I have been banned from a forum. No warnings just censorship of my posts and then the ban. The thread posts went like the following.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kremlar
I think what Hyperion doesn't understand is that most people that are happy about the leak are not AmigaOS 4.x/PowerPC fans. They are 68K people and will likely NEVER move to AmigaOS 4.x/PowerPC, so they are not biting the hand that feeds them.

Perhaps if Hyperion catered a bit to the much larger 68K market their statement might make more sense.

The buzz around Natami showed that what most Amiga users want is a continuation of the original Amiga idea, what most users would have liked future Amigas to look like - which is not necessarily what Commodore would have done. I, and I think most 68K users, would have liked continually enhanced custom chipsets to keep the Amiga unique and better than the rest of the PC market. AA/AAA/SuperAGA/whatever.

Catering to the tiny AmigaOS 4.x/PowerPC market seems bizarre to me. Hyperion/A-EON would be much better off continuing development of AmigaOS 68K and moving forward with a FPGA project in my opinion.
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Originally Posted by matthey
I agree. I have made similar points in the past about the blowback from Hyperion/A-EON blocking 68k development so it is natural that the 68k masses are happy and the PPC elites worried about the leak. Arrogant leadership can expect no sympathy. Was it Queen Marie Antoinette who said of the peasants without bread, "Let them eat cake" before the French revolution and losing her head? The Amiga bourgeoisie would be wise to be more inclusive and open.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kremlar
+1

I think Hyperion has it backwards anyway. They are not the hand that feeds their users, their users are the hands that feed them.

I have to say, I can't fathom how they are possibly still in business.
Quote:
Originally Posted by matthey
Hyperion's business plans failed and they would have been bankrupt without a last minute bailout by A-EON. I believe A-EON has considerable influence if not complete control of Hyperion now. There needs to be change as going with a failed business plan is ludicrous. A-EON seems smarter and less arrogant than Hyperion so I hold some hope that the necessary changes will be implemented. I don't want the chaos of another messy bankruptcy/revolution.
This isn't the first time my posts have been censored or disappeared on amiga.org. The elites insult us over and over again but expect us to buy their overpriced old technology. They can't handle the truth which has become trolling to them. Shall I start a thread of Amiga users who pledge to not buy, support or use any products from Hyperion or A-EON including AmigaOS 4, AmigaOne, amiga.org, amigaworld.net, amigakit, Amiga Store, etc.? I'm tired of this. If they want a non-inclusive divided Amiga community then we will divide it more against them. Anyone else ready for a revolution?
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Old 06 January 2016, 00:26   #30
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I'm guessing it was this Elayahahoo-guy who banned you? You've always seemed level-headed and well-spoken in your posts, I can't understand why anyone over there would even consider banning you for those posts.
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Old 06 January 2016, 00:59   #31
matthey
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I'm guessing it was this Elayahahoo-guy who banned you?
Yes.

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Originally Posted by Leffmann View Post
You've always seemed level-headed and well-spoken in your posts, I can't understand why anyone over there would even consider banning you for those posts.
I have always spoken what I believe and stood behind it. It has gotten me in trouble before as a rebel and seditionist but its usually time to leave these abusive authoritarian situations as it is rare that they get better. I'm the nice guy that likes to cooperate and help people so I tend to stay in these situations too long for the benefit of other sufferers but I should have learned by now that the odds are against me .
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Old 06 January 2016, 01:15   #32
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I wish they would make a newer os for my little old amiga 1200 aswell.
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Old 06 January 2016, 01:18   #33
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I do not say that Hyperion are bad guys, I just would like to see some agreement. I understood they try to protect their vision and business. I do not try to count how big is group that use OS4.x versus rest of our little hobby group. I would love to see some agreements and wise dialog without tossing "meat" from both sides. For me real Amiga is everything related to A500/A1200, Morphos, OS4.x, Aros, even winuae and I'm sure many people could have more open/narrow taste than me and I respect that. Code have leaked and it will not "un-leaked". Sure as EAB file server is not good place to keep it with current legal state (same stuff goes to APC&TCP and any other stuff that we can legally buy). I do not think that now there will be wild mass of amiga fans that will compile their own illegal os4.x version. I only hope for some agreement about how we can use it to improve different stuff related to our old A500/A1200 etc with respecting Hyperion rights (like adding them to credits or paying them small amount of money if You want to sell Your project). I do not want to see flame war.
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Old 06 January 2016, 01:35   #34
OlafSch
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Originally Posted by matthey View Post
Yes.



I have always spoken what I believe and stood behind it. It has gotten me in trouble before as a rebel and seditionist but its usually time to leave these abusive authoritarian situations as it is rare that they get better. I'm the nice guy that likes to cooperate and help people so I tend to stay in these situations too long for the benefit of other sufferers but I should have learned by now that the odds are against me .
I could pm him why you was banned. i do not think that the comments were so harsh that banning was justified. It is a little strange to me.

Regarding revolution, that is already underway thanks to intelligent and ambitious FPGA developers and fantastic developers like Toni Wilen. Future of the platform is the past so to say, the 68k platform (be it 3.X or Aros). Either they join or they become obsolet. For that you do not even have to make a campaign, the users will decide.
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Old 06 January 2016, 02:06   #35
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AmigaOS 3.1 source code leak - official statement

Hyperion is in a bad position whatever they do. If they take legal action against their customers they may as well just close up shop now.

Last edited by Vot; 06 January 2016 at 02:14.
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Old 06 January 2016, 02:10   #36
matthey
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I could pm him why you was banned. i do not think that the comments were so harsh that banning was justified. It is a little strange to me.
The reason was given as trolling and Kremlar's post states "Last edited by eliyahu; Today at 02:10 PM.. Reason: removed quote from trolling post".

http://www.amiga.org/forums/showthread.php?t=70293

Half the posts in this thread could also be considered trolling by the same strict guidelines. Here on EAB we can talk openly about such things but I have seen people banned and received a warning for talking about a hypothetical NG Amiga. I don't understand all this censorship. I might have to use your forum for controversial Amiga discussions .

Quote:
Originally Posted by OlafSch View Post
Regarding revolution, that is already underway thanks to intelligent and ambitious FPGA developers and fantastic developers like Toni Wilen. Future of the platform is the past so to say, the 68k platform (be it 3.X or Aros). Either they join or they become obsolet. For that you do not even have to make a campaign, the users will decide.
Maybe, but even the groups (I don't want to say camps) in the FPGA Amiga revolution are not working together enough and need outside help. The lack of 68k AmigaOS development and support is a road block as AROS is far from optimized enough for a low end CPU. Incompatible hardware is likely to arise due to lack of cooperation and standards. There is unlikely to be better support in compiler backends for the 68k with low production numbers and for an FPGA CPU. Amiga software in general does not get outside developer support because of the small divided market and differing APIs. Even if the Amiga people who could make a difference all worked together, it may be too late for the Amiga. You are more of an optimist than me.

Last edited by matthey; 06 January 2016 at 02:17.
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Old 06 January 2016, 02:20   #37
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Hyperion is in a bad position whatever they do. If they take legal action against their customers they may as well just close up shop now, if they don't their copyright is toilet paper.
This is true. The whole idea of protecting the source code is to prevent something like this from happening at all. Once the code's out there, it's a nigh-on-impossibility of locking it down again.
 
Old 06 January 2016, 02:36   #38
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I guess what's left of the Amiga community stands at a really weird crossroads - and by community I mean the 68k, WinUAE and OS4/PPC users - AROS and MorphOS have already gone their 'Amiga-like' way and for whatever reasons many of us have chosen to stick with 3.x/68k/emulation or invest in OS4.

PPC is still a contentious issue since all it brings to the party is an updated, official and recognisable AmigaOS and eye-wateringly expensive hardware - it still (imo) looks and feels like an Amiga but it has extremely limited utility in comparison to Windows/OSX/Linux.

But for a long time now we've had 68k running at speeds that completely humiliate PPC hardware on x86/x64 via UAE and the upcoming FPGA products are just dumping salt on those wounds - some time in the not-too-distant future FPGA 'classic' Amigas will be running 68k software faster than the AmigaOne X1000.

Which leaves Hyperion with a product they've invested a great deal of time and money in having limited usefulness. They don't want the 3.1 source code out there because they need the lock-in to survive. If some enterprising hacker ports OS 3.X to x86 and includes UAE then OS4 and the PPC ecosystem is dead. It's dying anyway but this source code release leaves them incredibly vulnerable.

In my opinion their best option is to work with the WinUAE devs to remove some of the limitations to running OS4 under emulation (addressable RAM, GFX card support) and begin moving OS4 to native x86 (which they must be doing already?).

Last edited by Aegis; 06 January 2016 at 02:48.
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Old 06 January 2016, 02:48   #39
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@matthey

happened to me more than once. before it was the lap dog warez dealer whom they appointed to be the moderator. eliyahu took the duty over since then. about revolution, well, i can only speak for myself, i didnt swear but i have a hard time looking for an excuse just to imagine buying anything from them ever again.
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Old 06 January 2016, 02:54   #40
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I could pm him why you was banned. i do not think that the comments were so harsh that banning was justified. It is a little strange to me.

Regarding revolution, that is already underway thanks to intelligent and ambitious FPGA developers and fantastic developers like Toni Wilen. Future of the platform is the past so to say, the 68k platform (be it 3.X or Aros). Either they join or they become obsolet. For that you do not even have to make a campaign, the users will decide.
and you, traitor, bought that os4fe. btw i think its no use to talk reason to those moderators. vorauseilender gehorsam is the name of the game.
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