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Old 01 December 2016, 15:07   #21
kovacm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptyerman View Post
OK. I'll give you a little history lesson and a link to read through which gives you most of the story.
The initial funding that was given to Jay Minor for the Amiga development was given by the Warner owned Atari, in return Atari was to gain exclusive right to the Amiga for 12 months. Jack Tramiel came along in the middle of all this and this is where things got complicated.
Anyway read about it all yourself, it's quite the story. Wikipedia has a general description of what went on at the time, there is more accurate citations out there but it gives the general idea.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga_Corporation
I EDITE THAT WIKIPEDIA ARTICLE because not so long ago it also stated that Jack Tramiel gave $500.000 to Amiga team!

That asshole, Kim Justice, base his entire 30 minutes crap video (story) around how Jack wanted Amiga chips WHICH IS complete nonsense!


EDIT:
I did not edit "Amiga_Corporation" (thanks for bring my attention) article on wikipedia but these two:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Amiga
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amiga

Last edited by kovacm; 01 December 2016 at 15:19.
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Old 01 December 2016, 18:08   #22
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And this is why Wikipedia is terrible, any shmuck can edit it (and I do mean any, be it kovacm or Kim Justice or the Pope).
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Old 01 December 2016, 19:14   #23
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Originally Posted by Akira View Post
And this is why Wikipedia is terrible, any shmuck can edit it (and I do mean any, be it kovacm or Kim Justice or the Pope).
I agree, which is why I said there is better articles out there that are more reliable. I just don't have the time today to hunt them down.
Wikipedia is accurate about the Amiga almost being a Atari machine though, it was the court case between them and Commodore that decided that fate!
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Old 01 December 2016, 20:21   #24
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Originally Posted by ptyerman View Post
Wikipedia is accurate about the Amiga almost being a Atari machine though,
I will repeat again: Wikipedia is accurate now; but not so long ago article stated that Jack Tramiel invest $500.000 in Amiga...

Quote:
Originally Posted by ptyerman View Post
it was the court case between them and Commodore that decided that fate!
more precise: out of court settlement. Jack Tramiel in last interview (by 8bit generation) that Commodore pay million (not sure, I need to check) plus all court costs. (note: Jack also wrongly remember that he called company "Commodore" because of Opel Commodore which come many years later!)

---

Biggest problem of man kind is universal "platform for common ground".
Mankind had great opportunity to have system for writing on computers imagined by Ted Nelson; system that would preserve provenance of information ("copy and paste" on computer should always remember: from where, who and when copied) but instead we are stuck with "404" internet by Tim B. Lee...
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Old 01 December 2016, 21:46   #25
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Originally Posted by kovacm View Post
("copy and paste" on computer should always remember: from where, who and when copied)
I guess you are all in for government surveillance then.

As it is, the Wikipedia page you mention is now accurate because YOU edited it? That sounds very wrong.
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Old 01 December 2016, 22:25   #26
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I guess you are all in for government surveillance then.
only one thing is matter that make (key) difference: who have these informations?

everybody or only chosen? I prefer: everybody have access to all informations. nobody is in power over others. (our entire culture is based upon unequal access to information: everyday going to grocery shop is demonstration exactly of this unequal access to information! not to mention far more hideous things...)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akira View Post
As it is, the Wikipedia page you mention is now accurate because YOU edited it? That sounds very wrong.
Yes.
Because I wrote on wikipedia URLs to sources of my knowledge.*
Curt Vendel and Marty Goldberg recover physical evidence plus conduct interviews with relevant person about this fairytale: "Jack Tramiel want Amiga chips and invest $500.000"... and Jack NEVER invest any money in Amiga as Kim asshole Justice claim in his videos...

*since we do not have automatically preservation of information provenance on internet.

Last edited by kovacm; 01 December 2016 at 22:31.
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Old 02 December 2016, 04:53   #27
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"Sigh"
For anyone interested in a UN-edited more truthful account you can find one here: http://www.filfre.net/2015/04/the-68...-jack-is-back/.
I have seen the official public release of the court documents somewhere online in the past but can't seem to find them at the moment.
The crux of the matter was that Atari stumped up $500.000 and if it wasn't paid back in a month they would gain the Amiga, along came Commodore with a much better offer and the Amiga team went with them.
Atari took it to court saying the Amiga was rightfully theirs but lost, and the rights were confirmed as belonging to Commodore.
The rest is history!
The trouble Atari was in at the time, the writing was already on the wall. The Amiga team made the right decision I think, the Commodore problems started with that ape Irving Gould and his cohort Mehdi Ali much later.
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Old 02 December 2016, 05:41   #28
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Here in Michigan I had a few Amigas starting in 1986 ( the 1000 first).
Convinced my brother and sister to get one soon after. Hey, it's all I could do.
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Old 02 December 2016, 05:57   #29
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Originally Posted by kovacm View Post
as Kim asshole Justice claim in his videos..
One : I don't think it's fair that you insult someone in this way, especially when they are not around to defend themselves, It's cowardly and disgusting.
Although this forum does not precisely forbid attacks of this kind, I would suggest is in extremely poor taste that you do this about someone.

Two: this very fact makes all your edits dubious, since you seem to be fueled by personal contempt. I would suggest anyone to undo any changes you have made until a more neutral person steps in to correct mistakes.
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Old 02 December 2016, 08:27   #30
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Yeah Atari Age is the place for bitterness and corporate bullshit, keep it friendly here peeps!
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Old 02 December 2016, 10:43   #31
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Originally Posted by Akira View Post
One : I don't think it's fair that you insult someone in this way, especially when they are not around to defend themselves, It's cowardly and disgusting.
What is disgusting is that I already wrote to Kim Justice over youtube telling him to not spread lies about Jack Tramiel and Amiga since his channel is quite popular, lot of people will get wrong information. And what that asshole does? Make another two videos repeating same lies!!!

That is disgusting.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Akira View Post
Two: this very fact makes all your edits dubious, since you seem to be fueled by personal contempt. I would suggest anyone to undo any changes you have made until a more neutral person steps in to correct mistakes.
I agree.
I started thread on atari-forum.com where I will collect all URL regarding this Jack Tramiel - Amiga topic: http://www.atari-forum.com/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=30697 There I will add URLs as I find them on internet...

Regarding wikipedia: I just edited statement that Jack Tramiel lend money to Amiga which is not true. I also left URLs on talk page regarding this topic for future investigation.
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Old 02 December 2016, 11:24   #32
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Originally Posted by ptyerman View Post
"Sigh"
For anyone interested in a UN-edited more truthful account you can find one here: http://www.filfre.net/2015/04/the-68...-jack-is-back/.
I have seen the official public release of the court documents somewhere online in the past but can't seem to find them at the moment.
The crux of the matter was that Atari stumped up $500.000 and if it wasn't paid back in a month they would gain the Amiga, along came Commodore with a much better offer and the Amiga team went with them.
Most important thing when you write about this topic is to write: "Atari Inc. stumped up $500.000" ... ""


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Originally Posted by ptyerman View Post
Atari took it to court saying the Amiga was rightfully theirs but lost, and the rights were confirmed as belonging to Commodore.
No.
Commodore first sue Tramel Technology, Ltd. accusing ex-Commodore employees for taking trade secrets (particularly Shiraz Shivji) since MANY Commodore employees left Commodore to follow Jack Tramiel in new company (yes, Jack was "terrible person" (IF you watch Kim Justice videos!...) but somehow, many of his employees keep following him).

Only later Jack found out (it was his son Leonard) for Atari Inc. - Amiga contract and use it to contra sue Commodore!

Atari Corp. eventually got this case since Commodore pay them in out of court settlement and agree to pay all court costs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ptyerman View Post
The Amiga team made the right decision I think, the Commodore problems started with that ape Irving Gould and his cohort Mehdi Ali much later.
It was not "right" decision but it was ONLY decision since Amiga team try for year to find ANY investor for their future computer but no one (Sony, Apple, Kodak, even Commodore with Jack Tramiel...) was not interested in Amiga so eventually Amiga was forced to sign such peskiness deal with Atari Inc. and take $500.000! (yes: ugliness of free market and capitalist economy)

Amiga actually got quite lucky when Jack Tramiel left Commodore. If he had not leave Commodore, Amiga would end up with Atari Inc. which lose BIG money and probably soon would go bankrupt and Amiga would never see day of light.
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Old 02 December 2016, 17:25   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lane View Post

That said, I do not recall ever seeing the Amiga in the wild during it's production run (or Atari STs, for that matter). Either in stores, school, business, someone's home, etc. It was all 8-bit machines until the late 80s. Then it was mostly PCs, the occasional Mac, and some SGI workstations in college.

Maybe they were more prevalent in other areas of NA, but I never saw one.
I saw both Amigas and Atari ST and TT computers in stores in Southern California, we also had Computer shows and swap meets for just about any computer you could imagine. I never saw an Amiga 600 or 1200 in the U.S. but I saw A500, A1000, A2000 and up to the A4000. The A2000 - A4000 series were very popular in TV stations and Cable systems.

In the 80's many computer stores had both Amiga and Atari computers, by the 90's you had to go to a dedicated Commodore or Atari store to buy one, they could also be found at the monthly computer shows in Southern California.

Last edited by Wayne123; 02 December 2016 at 17:32.
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Old 03 December 2016, 03:53   #34
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I give up!
@kovacm
You carry on editing, you will find plenty of links to the same story that you can't edit though.
Thankfully!
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