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Old 27 November 2015, 07:06   #41
snoopy77
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I don't understand why to worry about 040 or 060; if they run hot, if they are few, if some give problems... a fully working cheap FPGA is all that you should worry about. Then you can emulate any of them or just a 020 with 100 MIPS.
I see something like the Vampire as half way between classic hardware and winuae. Suspect a pretty good % of people will want an original CPU. Personally I'm interested in the Vampire but probably wouldn't buy no matter how fast it was. There will always be lots of people chasing 040's/060's in my view.
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Old 27 November 2015, 07:13   #42
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THEN AGAIN, most people have accelerators for no good reason. Most software most people use has absolutely no need for an accelerator.
If there were more NEW KILLER game developments, demos, utilities, that need an 030, I would gladly save up and a purchase would be justified. But the Amiga scene, software wise, is pretty dead, and further expanding my machines seems ludicrous.
Who actually "needs" any 30 year old computer? More of a "want" in my view, much like buying an old Ferrari.

I bought a Blizzard IV because I want to see 10 mips in sysinfo and I want it to boot in 14 seconds.
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Old 27 November 2015, 11:00   #43
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Originally Posted by Sandro View Post
despite Jens or any other hardware developer gets 040 cpus at only 1 dollar per unit, a 040 turboboard will be priced way higher than a 030 because is viable and they can do it according to demand and according to the ebay prices of the 040 turboboards

it seems you lack basic knowledge about marketing,definitively you are not a sales man
It also seems that Jens is uninterested in eBay prices when he determines the prices of his hardware, otherwise his ACA1221 board would be much more expensive. Sometimes people do actually base the selling price on their cost structure rather than the rarity of 20-year-old competitor products. I'm sure 68040 boards would be more expensive than 68030 boards because otherwise who would buy a 68030 board? But the track record here is not to follow eBay prices or any such shallow practices.
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Old 27 November 2015, 13:22   #44
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He isn't against FPGAs
I was referring to making a 040/060 board, he has said that he'll never make one

FPGA makes much more sense for him - they're readily available, can be bought in bulk and thus he can offer a finished (and tested) product.
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Old 28 November 2015, 03:30   #45
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When he metioned FPGA or CPLD, he meant memory controller going faster than 100 or 120 mhz, not CPUs.
In my opinion, both solutions are great for what we need. But while others with FPGA are developing the cpu core, Icomp is already selling what we need to work with our amigas. If Icomp makes a 040/060 accelerator with a PGA processor, they cannot give you a warranty, wich by law they have to. He cannot sell you an empty board either, because without a processor is not a working item, therefore cannot be sold. I think a 030 is more than enough for most games and aplications of an Amiga computer. 040 was the last thing commodore supported, and it was mainly for serious programs, not games.
It's not worth to use productivity software in amiga. But that's my opinion, other opinions have their poins also
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Old 28 November 2015, 09:01   #46
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Originally Posted by Marmes View Post
If Icomp makes a 040/060 accelerator with a PGA processor, they cannot give you a warranty, wich by law they have to. He cannot sell you an empty board either, because without a processor is not a working item, therefore cannot be sold.
So following this way of thinking, how can they be selling (in the future) the Amiga Reloaded without a cpu? It is also a non working item by itself

Law is being followed in some odd case? Or is it really other thing that prevents this from happening?
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Old 28 November 2015, 09:55   #47
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He cannot sell you an empty board either, because without a processor is not a working item, therefore cannot be sold
Of course they can be sold, otherwise selling motherboards in general wouldn't be possible.

But as far as I've understood he doesn't want to give a warranty for a board that the user might easily break when, for example, installing a faulty CPU.
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Old 28 November 2015, 09:58   #48
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If Icomp makes a 040/060 accelerator with a PGA processor, they cannot give you a warranty, which by law they have to.
Rubbish. Total rubbish. Tested with a working CPU before sale would be fine.
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He cannot sell you an empty board either, because without a processor is not a working item, therefore cannot be sold.
Quick. Someone tell Asus, Gigabyte, ASRock, MSI etc as that's what they do every day!!!
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Old 28 November 2015, 12:29   #49
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The CPU thing isn't rubbish. You buy something from a vendor abd get warranty. It's that simple. And with these CPU I don't know if I would want to do that.

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Old 28 November 2015, 18:21   #50
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The CPU thing isn't rubbish. You buy something from a vendor abd get warranty. It's that simple. And with these CPU I don't know if I would want to do that.

Cheers,
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ASUS has no idea what crappy CPU you are putting into the slot of that brand new mobo. All they gurrantee is that it will work as long as you use a working / right model CPU.
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Old 28 November 2015, 19:08   #51
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Who actually "needs" any 30 year old computer? More of a "want" in my view, much like buying an old Ferrari.
Sure, if the AMiga hobby becomes like buying Ferraris, count me out.

I actually have Amigas to USE them and a 030 doesn't make much of a difference with my use. And for most people who just want to run frickin' games, a 030 makes absolutely no difference.

By the way, your 030 Amiga boots ONLY in 14 seconds? Tsk tsk my ACA620 A600 boots faster
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Old 28 November 2015, 19:33   #52
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Quick. Someone tell Asus, Gigabyte, ASRock, MSI etc as that's what they do every day!!!
...because they sell their boards with ZIF sockets that enable people to install a CPU without special tools.

I do sell boards without chips - see C64 Reloaded that comes with ZIF sockets. If I could get ZIF sockets for PGA13x13 or 18x18, the CPU problem would be smaller, but still existent.

Trouble is that too many fakes are around, especially with the higher-end processors. Although I'd mostly "only" be the bearer of bad news, the impression that "my product" doesn't work right would still stick in people's heads.

When I made my first accelerators in 2010, I decided to solder RAM directly to the board, so people don't buy cheap stuff on eBay and expect it to work. This enabled me to push memory to the limit and still know that it works 100%. This was a *very* good decision.
I won't go ahead and jeopardize this tried-and-true method of providing a known-good product. PGA CPUs are difficult to install (especially if they have been removed from a non-ZIF socket before: Pins may bend and you don't even see it), and they are even more difficult to remove if you don't have a proper chip-puller.

EU customer protection laws don't specifically say that there must be ZIF sockets for chips - politicians didn't think of that. However, they leave enough room for interpretation that some a**hole with too much money for a lawyer can give me a hard time. I choose not to expose me and my business that way.

Jens
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Old 28 November 2015, 20:30   #53
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Trouble is that too many fakes are around, especially with the higher-end processors.
Is that quite a problem with 68K series CPUs? Fakes... as in poor clones that actually function, or completely fake/no silicon IC packages labelled up to look like the real chip?

(Don't have this problem with the Z80 and above I use for my retro hardware, as the classic 8-bitter is still made by Zilog!)

Last edited by Quazar; 28 November 2015 at 20:42.
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Old 29 November 2015, 02:28   #54
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ASUS has no idea what crappy CPU you are putting into the slot of that brand new mobo. All they gurrantee is that it will work as long as you use a working / right model CPU.
Sorry I was talking about selling the complete package including CPU. Even if the CPU is used and obviously tested iComp would be required to provide warranty.

Cheers,
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Old 29 November 2015, 03:30   #55
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I never seen in the past any company or store selling accelerators to public without CPUs. So motherboard with Zif socket here is not the way to explain.
Of course boards can be tested prior to shiping.
Not all users have the necessary skills to remove a cpu or messing with anything than the rudimentary on/off.
Products need to be dummy proof.
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Old 29 November 2015, 10:42   #56
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If a 060 board were to be produced, it would sell like Hot Cakes!!!
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Old 29 November 2015, 17:31   #57
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I love that new accelerators are being produced for my old A1200, but I can't justify spending so much money on an 030. Alright I might be coming at this slightly unaware of what goes in to making them, so I apologise. It just seems expensive even by 90s standards, were it an 040 or 060, then yes, I'd be more inclined to spent £200 to give my old machine a speed jump.

If some day a model is released around the £150 mark, then yes, it'll get my full attention. Until then, afraid this long time Amiga user will be sticking with his Blizzard 1260 and emulation.
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Old 29 November 2015, 21:45   #58
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I have several Amigas with all possible cpus. I couldn't imagine any reason to buy anything below 68040. With 68040 Operating system start to fly, prety much every App/Game works acceptable level etc. Using 68030 is just not pleasure someone who like to test / play with software.

Just manufacture card with socket for 040/060 cpu and jumper to choose right voltage for them. Sell them without CPU and untested.

There is always people who whine about everything, point is they are always there, you can't do anything whitout at least one involved.

I have changed some 68030 cpus, I belive that socket for 040/060 is similar??? No special tools is needed just some general care and patience. I might not be a best example, as I have built several thousand PCs some twenty years ago, but still.

Could it be done without a Company? as a Private Project just to protect interest.? Laws are very diffrent whem making busines between Private persons?

I have high doubt that MSI or ASUS test every mobo with cpu, to make sure they work.

FPGA is most obivous solution, so hope there will be one for AGA machines soon.

Last edited by utri007; 30 November 2015 at 01:16.
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Old 30 November 2015, 00:57   #59
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If a 060 board were to be produced, it would sell like Hot Cakes!!!
No, it wouldn't. Especially at the price it would be at.
Jens explained it before (also here more recently)and it makes a lot of sense. The cheaper, more modestly powered boards are top sellers, NOT the high end models.
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Old 30 November 2015, 01:21   #60
utri007
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You can't compare sales of non existing 68060 accelerator and expensive 68030 accelerator.

Many of us have a accelerator, or several Many of us doesn't have well powered accelerator. Difference between 68030 50mhz and 68040 25mhz is huge. Key question is how to make it not so expensive? Selling them without CPU and untested, would b e answer.
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