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Old 24 October 2015, 00:45   #1
lorgarn
 
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Stuck at setting up Harddrive

Greetings everyone,
perhaps my request is a special one, I dont really know.

I want to use WinUAE to emulate an Amiga500 with a harddisk to boot from. I wanted to use Kickstart 1.2 in the first place, but I have already learned that this is (sort of) impossible. So I switched to Kickstart 1.3

I tried to follow this guide -> http://guide.abime.net/home1.3.htm
But I had absolutely no success so far.
This is what I have done so far:
  • Setting up hardware / emulation specifications according to the guide, including setting up a kickstart 1.3 ROM and saving the configuration
  • Creating a new hardfile with a size iof 500MB
  • Switching to a kickstart 2.0 ROM and booting into a 1.3 Workbench, watched the formatting of the harddive for about an hour
  • Switching back to kickstart 1.3, booting into 1.3. workbench from floppy, which complaind about the harddisk not being validated.
  • Tried to validate the harddisk with diskdoctor, which stated that the harddrive was not a device.
  • Tried to initialize the harddrive from kickstart 1.3 and workbench 1.3, watched that process another hour, after which the emulation froze.
  • Reset UAE, at this point I could not boot the wb 1.3 floppy any more
  • Removed hardfile from confiugration, floppy can boot again
  • Created another hardfile, 50MB this time
  • Booted into Kick 1.3 and WB 1.3, initialized harddisk which showed up no errors
  • Copied all files from the wb 1.3 floppy to the harddisk with the command 'COPY DF0: WBDisk: ALL' according to the guide, which copied all files
  • Reset UAE, removed floppy Booting stops after the copyright notice in the AmigaDOS window.
  • Tired to boot from floppy with the same result
  • Removed hardfile from configuration, wb floppy can boot again.
I would kindly like to ask for a comprehensive guide on how to setup the harddrive in UAE. The guides I could find are very much outdated (referring to UAE version 1.x or even 0.x).


Kind regards


Lorgarn
 
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Old 24 October 2015, 09:37   #2
Toni Wilen
WinUAE developer
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland
Age: 42
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Sounds like partition was formatted as OFS. OFS has very small max size limit (less than 50M or so). How did you format it?

Also always use quick format when formatting hard drives, full format only wastes time.

("system/format drive dh0: name whatever ffs quick")

EDIT: Guide is quite old.. It is better to do formatting under 2.0+ because format dialog has FFS option (or use command line), under 1.3 it is too easy create OFS partition.
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Old 24 October 2015, 14:20   #3
lorgarn
 
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Thank you for your quick reply.

I did format the harddisk with the menu option format or initialize in 2.0 or 1.3

I deleted my hardfiles throgh the windows explorer and created an new one with 500MB size.

Then I bootet the UAE into a kick 1.3 and WB 1.3 and tried to format the harddrive with the cli command you mentiond. But I get the error that there is not dos disk in dh0:

Do I have to do something special when I create the hardfile? Is there a documentation on that?

Kind regards
Lorgarn
 
Old 24 October 2015, 14:49   #4
Leffmann

 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Sweden
Posts: 2,010
Do you absolutely need a harddrive file? In case you're new to WinUAE and Amiga emulation, there's the option to use a plain directory as a harddrive. Transfer speeds are faster, no need to format or fiddle with complicated settings, and you can easily access your Amiga files directly from Windows if you need to.
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Old 24 October 2015, 15:34   #5
Toni Wilen
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Age: 42
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And if you want to use hardfile because you want to match some real A500 + HD configuration (controller you originally had back in the day or just because you can!): many HD controllers are emulated in hardware level (A590, GVPs etc..), enable it and install it exactly like you would do when using real hardware.

Your problem probably is related to 1.3 partition hardfile fastfilesystem hack. It is usually better idea to create RDB hardfile (RDB button in harddrive properties) and then use HDToolbox just like on real hardware. (But remember that UAE HD device is uaehf.device, not scsi.device, start hdtoolbox with correct command line: "tools/hdtoolbox uaehf.device")

But first check that hardfile FileSys path points to WB 1.3 L:FastFileSystem file. (Path to your physical PC drive, not Amiga)

And finally: check WinUAE 3.2 beta changelogs, 1.2 (and even older) HD boot is now possible
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Old 24 October 2015, 16:36   #6
lorgarn
 
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Ok, thanks again for answering but I thinnk I need to clearify what I am up to.

I never had a harddrive on my Amiga back in the days. That is why I would like to emulate an Amiga with a harddive, using it as I would have done so, on the original machine (or close to this).

The sources on how to do it, differ completely, some state that this can not be done with WB / Kickstart 1.2, some even state it can not be done with 1.3

The guide I originally mentioned even gave an alternative setup method, where they copied some fastfilesystem file but they never told what to do with those afterward.

Some people tell me about the HDToolbox. What is this program? Did it come with a Amiga harddirve back in the days? Where to get it now? How to use it?

Why cant I even format a created harddirve with WB 1.3 (as it happend when I tired to use the commandline command mentiond earlyer in this thread)?

Again: Is there a comprehensive guide on this? A step by step howto? A documentation about how to create working, bootable hardfiles in winuae or actual original information on how to setup a harddirve on the amiga and boot from it?

Its hard to beleve the only guide available is for version 0.x or 1.x or WinUAE.

Kind regards
Lorgarn
 
Old 24 October 2015, 16:46   #7
Toni Wilen
WinUAE developer
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland
Age: 42
Posts: 19,542
If you only want Amiga harddrive because floppies are slow and annoying and you don't need specific harddrive type, then using PC directory as a harddrive is the easiest and most flexible solution under emulation.

Click "Add directory or archive" button and select some empty PC directory, make sure device name is DH0 and volume name is something else than DH0.

Insert 1.3 WB disk in DF0:, boot, open CLI, copy all files from DF0: to WB directory ("copy df0: dh0: all clone quiet"). remove disk, boot. WB 1.3 HD installation done
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Old 25 October 2015, 15:10   #8
lorgarn
 
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Toni, I shunned using a directory as a Amiga harddrive because i read that several problems, which try things like checking the free space on the drive fail on a directory.

I do not know much about all this, that is why i ask questions and I would very much appreciate, if someone could answer them, so I can understand all this. So I state it again:
  1. What drawbacks does using a normal windows directory as a Amiga harddrive have?
  2. What are the specifications for the WinUAE hardfile, to create one that is formatable and bootable?
  3. What is the difference between using the format cli command that was mentioned here, and the WB option from the menu? The first tells me that it does not work because the harddrive is not a dosdisk, the second formats my drive, lets me copy files on it but prevents the system from booting after that, as long as is remains in the configuration.
  4. Are there limitations to using kick 1.3 and wb 1.3 when trying to make a system bootabe from harddisk?
  5. What is the HDTool someone in this thread brought up? Is it some hack? Is it some piece of origianal software that came with an amiga drive? Where can I obtain it?
This is just a fun project for me, to figure out how things work. I understand if there are limitations to the Uae or the WB 1.3, and I am perfectly fine with it, if that would be the case. But I just want to understand what is going on.


Kind regards
Lorgarn
 
Old 25 October 2015, 16:35   #9
Toni Wilen
WinUAE developer
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland
Age: 42
Posts: 19,542
Quote:
Originally Posted by lorgarn View Post
Toni, I shunned using a directory as a Amiga harddrive because i read that several problems, which try things like checking the free space on the drive fail on a directory.
There is hack that fakes size to 1G ("Limit size of directory drives to 1G" in harddrives panel). It does not limit actual size, it just returns faked size/remaining size when disk size is requested.

I usually don't answer questions that are not emulation specific, sorry but here are some quick and short answers:

1) It is like network filesystem, there is no real block device. Programs that directly access the drive won't work (partitioning, formatting, sector editors etc.. "Normal" programs rarely have problems). Size check is not really emulation specific either, any >2G drive can show negative size depending on how program calculates it.

2) Same as any other real or virtual drive. Amiga HD partitioning has never been simple..

3) No much difference. CLI is easier and quicker if you know exactly what you want

4) KS 1.x can't boot without external loaded filesystem handler. KS 2.0+ has everything needed in ROM. Normally it is located in drive's partition table blocks (installed with hdtoolbox) or in case of UAE partition hardfiles (hardfile is a single partition, not whole drive that can be partitioned using hdtoolbox), FileSys path can be used to fake the RDB filesystem.

5) hdtoolbox is standard utility for partitioning Amiga harddrives. It comes with WB install disk.
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