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Old 29 October 2015, 19:42   #41
eXeler0
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Originally Posted by Samurai_Crow View Post
PPC + FPGA = Hardware FPU and classic AGA + enhanced features in the FPGA and still running OS4. Can we hope?
I always wondered why they insisted adding the -lets be honest- mostly useless Xena chip to the nex gen mobos. If they'd put an Altera Cyclone IV instead we could have made something useful with it ;-)
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Originally Posted by Samurai_Crow View Post
PPC + FPGA = Hardware FPU and classic AGA + enhanced features in the FPGA and still running OS4. Can we hope?
I always wondered why they insisted adding the -lets be honest- mostly useless Xena chip to the nex gen mobos. If they'd put an Altera Cyclone IV instead we could have made something useful with it ;-)
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Old 29 October 2015, 19:43   #42
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You see no issues with the fact that OS4 is written for PPC and 0% of the software (OS or apps) can run on the ARM architecture? It took them a decade to release 4.1 (from 4.0) so its not like OS development is lightning fast as it is.
So how would it help to release a new mobo with an ARM chip?
If the solution is to emulate in software then its even more pointless as there already is ppc support in WinUAE and that requires zero new hardware for anyone with a ppc.
Sure I do, but what's the alternative? Keep building stuff for a dead architecture until they won't be able to get any more chips for it? It's due time to switch over to ARM, if they never start they'll never do it.

Stop gap solution is to run everything thru a PPC interpreter and take the performance hit, while creating a stepstone for the future.

Just think how huge would be the OS 4.1 market were they to port it to the Pi 2!
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Old 29 October 2015, 20:05   #43
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Just think how huge would be the OS 4.1 market were they to port it to the Pi 2!
I hear ya, Ive thought exactly the same thing.
However, I just dont see it happening any time soon. And by soon I mean within a decade.
The ppl who keep OS 4 alive have all invested in Ppc hardware and software..

Jumping to ARM is to be considered a looooong term project in Amigaland. So from a realistic perspective its pointless to consider the Pie2 as a platform as that one would be 10 years old by the time the port would be done.
And who knows what platform will dominate in a decade.
If you go 10 years back in time there were practically no smartphones and ARM was an obscure platform in the embedded market.

Sorry to sound gloomy but the most likely scenario is that Amiga OS4 dies with PPC.
Or live on in software emulators...
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Old 29 October 2015, 20:55   #44
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Originally Posted by jbenam View Post
Just think how huge would be the OS 4.1 market were they to port it to the Pi 2!
Just think how huge the OS 4.1 market would be if they removed their head from out of their own asses and ported it to already very widely available and cheap PPC computers like all the PPC Macs.
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Old 29 October 2015, 22:33   #45
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@akira Well it didnt do wonders for MorphOS. AFAIK active user numbers are just sad.
And how come its so picky with the hardware. Its not like it runs on any PPC Mac.. Or even any version within the same model. . Oh no.. it comes with a lot of "ifs" and "buts" attached.
http://www.morphos.de/hardware
Still.. there's probably a good-ish reason for that. So porting OS 4.1 to run on old macs, while far easier than the ARM idea.. still would take a lot of effort...
And I eead somewhere that the main devs dont endorse this idea.. the path that MorpOS chose, to build something new for old hardware. In a way its understandable and makes sense, but in reality, the new hardware being built is already obsolete too, so...
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Old 29 October 2015, 22:59   #46
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Originally Posted by eXeler0 View Post
@akira Well it didnt do wonders for MorphOS.
MorphOS isn't AmigaOS, I just think that's its main problem.
Wasting time and money in all these stupid overpriced PPC motherboards has been the preferred pastime of the "neo Amiga" scene for years and people buying them has enabled Hyperion to lock their OS to these particular motherboards instead of at some point, MANY years ago, to decide to run their OS on standard Apple PPC units.

So as long as people are interested in purchasing this kinda crap, they'll keep forcing the OS to be locked into it.
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Old 30 October 2015, 00:31   #47
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Originally Posted by eXeler0 View Post
I always wondered why they insisted adding the -lets be honest- mostly useless Xena chip to the nex gen mobos. If they'd put an Altera Cyclone IV instead we could have made something useful with it ;-)

I always wondered why they insisted adding the -lets be honest- mostly useless Xena chip to the nex gen mobos. If they'd put an Altera Cyclone IV instead we could have made something useful with it ;-)
+2

I believe the Tabor board has a Lattice FPGA but I don't know if it has directly addressable lines and it is probably too small to help with standard PPC FPU support.

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Sure I do, but what's the alternative? Keep building stuff for a dead architecture until they won't be able to get any more chips for it? It's due time to switch over to ARM, if they never start they'll never do it.
Thumb 2 ARM is cheap but it has poor single core performance. The 68k has strong single core performance and, more importantly, we have lots of 68k Amiga software. The 68k Apollo core in FPGA should reach 100MHz 68060 performance which would be about 200MHz single core ARM Thumb 2 performance. I expect the Apollo would outperform most Thumb 2 ARM processors in single core performance if put in an ASIC (multi-core support is not a problem in FPGA either). Adding the Amiga custom chips, 3D and new I/O support would create an Amiga SoC which would allow the Amiga to control its own destiny.

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Just think how huge would be the OS 4.1 market were they to port it to the Pi 2!
But there would be no software without emulation or recompiling.
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Old 30 October 2015, 01:08   #48
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there already is ppc support in WinUAE and that requires zero new hardware for anyone with a PC.
Good point and people seem to forget this

If I had a burning desire to run OS4 then that's what I'd look into setting up before considering a new motherboard.

Personally, I feel that the time for a new cheap PPC OS4 motherboard is gone. If they'd managed it a few years ago (something like a SAM Flex for $200) then maybe......but not now.
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Old 30 October 2015, 11:05   #49
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Amiga OS is hobby OS, there is no point to talk about price, as hobbies has always price.

As long as there is no huge user base something like 5 000 000 users, there is no point to change CPU.

There is AROS for those who want to have "Amiga" running with cheap x86 hardware.
There is MorhOS for those who want to have "Amiga" running with old Apple products.
There is Amiga OS4 for those who like to have custom hardware.
There is Amiga OS4 for those who like to test it with under emulation. I T cost 27€. Whit that price, there is no excuse not to test.

With logic MorphOS/Aros should have dominant in Amiga land.

Thing about BeOS, they did everything like that, it didn't help. BeBox - > Apple - > x86

I'm a middle aged man, so some 500-1000€ is not much for me. I could have much more expensive hobby. Wait I have, I have Alfa Romeo wich has problems all the time.

Last edited by utri007; 30 October 2015 at 12:12.
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Old 30 October 2015, 15:31   #50
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Amiga OS is hobby OS, there is no point to talk about price, as hobbies has always price.
That's ridiculous. With that mindset, you declare that people that don't have as much money can't enjoy a hobby!
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Old 30 October 2015, 16:58   #51
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That's ridiculous. With that mindset, you declare that people that don't have as much money can't enjoy a hobby!
Do you mean 27€? That much is OS4 classic.. Everybody has x64 hardware already.
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Old 30 October 2015, 17:11   #52
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Originally Posted by eXeler0 View Post
@akira Well it didnt do wonders for MorphOS. AFAIK active user numbers are just sad.
And how come its so picky with the hardware. Its not like it runs on any PPC Mac.. Or even any version within the same model. . Oh no.. it comes with a lot of "ifs" and "buts" attached.
http://www.morphos.de/hardware
Still.. there's probably a good-ish reason for that. So porting OS 4.1 to run on old macs, while far easier than the ARM idea.. still would take a lot of effort...
And I eead somewhere that the main devs dont endorse this idea.. the path that MorpOS chose, to build something new for old hardware. In a way its understandable and makes sense, but in reality, the new hardware being built is already obsolete too, so...
"didnt do wonders for MorphOS. AFAIK active user numbers are just sad"

Really? have you LOOKED at the actual numbers?
It has greatly increased the number who have bought licenses.

And there is no official number for the people that just use the 30 minute demo.

And do you really think the number of active OS4 users is that much higher?

In either case, total combined numbers are likely several thousand.

While not mainstream, looks pretty successful to me.

Certainly higher than the number of FPGA boards that running OS3.X.

Migrating to X64 will take a few years.

And, btw, MorphOS will be there before OS4.

In the meanwhile, we have SAM460 support, will have X5000 support, and will probably NOT be dumb enough to support Tabor.

Because, to an extent, we will overpay for hardware, just not crappy hardware.

Which might explain why the second board for our OS dropped the Artica S, while Amigans had to put up with what was it 3 boards from MAI using their flawed product?

Old AmigaOnes, now there is sad.

Thankfully, A-eon and Varisys have had a pretty good run (until this latest bomb was dropped on us).

Last edited by iggybeans; 30 October 2015 at 21:48.
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Old 30 October 2015, 17:27   #53
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Originally Posted by iggybeans View Post
"didnt do wonders for MorphOS. AFAIK active user numbers are just sad"

Really? have you LOOKED at the actual numbers?
It has greatly increased the number who have bought licenses.

And there is no official number for the people that just use the 30 minute demo.

And do you really think the number of active OS4 users is that much higher?

In either case, total combined numbers are likely several thousand.

While not mainstream, looks pretty successful to me.

Certainly higher than the number of FPGA boards that running OS3.X.

Migrating to X64 will take a few years.

And, btw, MorphOS will be there before OS4.

In the meanwhile, we have SAM460 support, will have X5000 support, and will probably NOT be dumb enough to support Tabor.

Because, to an extent, will will overpay for hardware, just not crappy hardware.

Which might explain why the second board for our OS dropped the Artica S, while Amigans had to put up with what was it 3 boards from MAI using their flawed product?

Old AmigaOnes, now there is sad.

Thankfully, A-eon and Varisys have had a pretty good run (until this latest bomb was dropped on us).
Regarding user numers for MorphOS / Aros
I used this:
http://amigamap.com/
-->Statistics MorpOS --> MorpOS global chart..
Maybe its not accurate, but its better than guesses or any other info I have.
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Old 30 October 2015, 17:37   #54
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Originally Posted by eXeler0 View Post
Regarding user numers for MorphOS / Aros
I used this:
http://amigamap.com/
-->Statistics MorpOS --> MorpOS global chart..
Maybe its not accurate, but its better than guesses or any other info I have.
Interesting. I get a page with a Window that reads "bugfix Release', when I click on that.

That would about sum up my experience with OS4.
Buggy hardware, buggy software, slowly delivered, with limited support (the community can do that).

No problem, after all, OS4 IS real Amiga. Isn't it?
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Old 30 October 2015, 18:21   #55
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Is this thread turning into a Blue Team vs Red Team discussion? We've had enough of those during the years
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Old 30 October 2015, 18:32   #56
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Is this thread turning into a Blue Team vs Red Team discussion? We've had enough of those during the years
Er, sorry.
I was feeling vulnerable and defensive.

And, btw, all you OS4 flat earthers, two things.

First my car is better than yours.
And second, my Dad can beat up your Dad.

So there!
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Old 30 October 2015, 18:44   #57
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good point and people seem to forget this

if i had a burning desire to run os4 then that's what i'd look into setting up before considering a new motherboard.

Personally, i feel that the time for a new cheap ppc os4 motherboard is gone. If they'd managed it a few years ago (something like a sam flex for $200) then maybe......but not now.
+1
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Old 30 October 2015, 22:04   #58
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Do you mean 27€? That much is OS4 classic.. Everybody has x64 hardware already.
Nah I am talking about this stupid "Amiga" PPC hardware and the people who buy it. The person I replied to said that any hobby is supposed to cost money, implying that people of lower economic means cannot enjoy a hobby, in this case Amiga.
Of course WinUAE is a million miles better solution
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Old 31 October 2015, 17:45   #59
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Personally, I don't get the appeal of the PPC platform for the amiga these days - back in the early to mid 90's it was viable, but I don't really see much benefit in running to another dying platform.

I would personally prefer to see an effort into legally obtaining the old OS 3.1 source code and releasing it to the community as an open source platform, as much as that may be a pipe-dream, but it could certainly give the platform a new lease of life in porting to new platforms, and could be forked to suit any group interests.
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Old 31 October 2015, 18:01   #60
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I would have liked to be able to add OS4 to a Windows/Mac/Linux PC as a partition and dual boot it like Amithlon/Amikit. (I use Amikit myself)
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