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Old 02 October 2015, 02:06   #21
Thorham
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I don't see too many people saying they want an old PC either, I don't get nostalgic and miss my first 386 PC.
Of course not. Old peecees suck turds straight from the ass.
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Old 02 October 2015, 10:48   #22
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lol, now that is funny.
Watch out for the more popular hardware Amiga 1200.

Can we scrap this thread now, as it was posted for no reason other than to stir.
Funny how the same user hasn't posted the same thing on any of the Next Amiga related sites.
I was joking.... I don't have anything against Amiga NG but I find these prices stupid. Hopefully we will have Amiga NG NG soon which will run on x86 so we can move on with affordable hardware. Just my opinion.
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Old 02 October 2015, 12:28   #23
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I was joking.... I don't have anything against Amiga NG but I find these prices stupid. Hopefully we will have Amiga NG NG soon which will run on x86 so we can move on with affordable hardware. Just my opinion.
Now that's a sensitive subject to bring up. ;-)
Id might pitch a slightly different idea... Not sure there IS a "best solution" but IMHO, the most convenient solution for a NG Amiga that still has its own hardware would be to make it a PCIE card you put into a PC. Not sure PCIE is the best type of connector for the job and it would probably require a bit of magic to work, but you get the idea.
That way you could re-use some stuff from the PC (gfx card, sound, dvd, monitor, PSU the case itself etc..) ... desk space... but still have custom hardware.. legacy ppc... even a FPGA chip for "proper" 68k emulation. ;-)
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Old 02 October 2015, 13:12   #24
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I'll say it again - NG Amiga needs to drop PowerPC (seriously, I thought it'd have been long dead by 2015!) and embrace ARM.

Make it cheap and cheerful like a Raspberry Pi and you have a massive market of tinkerers willing to play with it.

Seriously, if A-EON went after the "small computer" crazy we saw in the last 3 years instead of building a computer for the 1% (Yes. Prices are too high and it's a product for the elite. We have to deal with that) the Amiga and OS4.1 could now have an huge share of the market and be actually relevant again.

Instead they like confining themselves in a niche of a niche (the bigger niche being the Classic Amiga market).
Oh well, there goes another wasted opportunity for the Amiga \_(ツ)_/
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Old 02 October 2015, 13:32   #25
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I'll say it again - NG Amiga needs to drop PowerPC (seriously, I thought it'd have been long dead by 2015!) and embrace ARM.

Make it cheap and cheerful like a Raspberry Pi and you have a massive market of tinkerers willing to play with it.

Seriously, if A-EON went after the "small computer" crazy we saw in the last 3 years instead of building a computer for the 1% (Yes. Prices are too high and it's a product for the elite. We have to deal with that) the Amiga and OS4.1 could now have an huge share of the market and be actually relevant again.

Instead they like confining themselves in a niche of a niche (the bigger niche being the Classic Amiga market).
Oh well, there goes another wasted opportunity for the Amiga \_(ツ)_/
If it was quick and easy to jump to another architecture, theyd probably be on ARM already.. but lets face it.. developers are few and far between.. OS4.x has been actively developed for a zillion years (give or take) yet theres still no real multi-core support in the OS just to name an obvious "modern OS" feature... (Maybe a 4.2 feature, IDK)...
But yea... at this point, AMIGA would have a better fighting chance if the hardware was more like Raspberry Pi snd a little less than an overpriced PowerMac from 2006 or so...
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Old 02 October 2015, 13:55   #26
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Originally Posted by jbenam View Post
I'll say it again - NG Amiga needs to drop PowerPC (seriously, I thought it'd have been long dead by 2015!) and embrace ARM.

Make it cheap and cheerful like a Raspberry Pi and you have a massive market of tinkerers willing to play with it.

Seriously, if A-EON went after the "small computer" crazy we saw in the last 3 years instead of building a computer for the 1% (Yes. Prices are too high and it's a product for the elite. We have to deal with that) the Amiga and OS4.1 could now have an huge share of the market and be actually relevant again.

Instead they like confining themselves in a niche of a niche (the bigger niche being the Classic Amiga market).
Oh well, there goes another wasted opportunity for the Amiga \_(ツ)_/
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If it was quick and easy to jump to another architecture, theyd probably be on ARM already.. but lets face it.. developers are few and far between.. OS4.x has been actively developed for a zillion years (give or take) yet theres still no real multi-core support in the OS just to name an obvious "modern OS" feature... (Maybe a 4.2 feature, IDK)...
But yea... at this point, AMIGA would have a better fighting chance if the hardware was more like Raspberry Pi snd a little less than an overpriced PowerMac from 2006 or so...

Agreed, I have already pointed this out. So who knows whats around the corner in regards to hardware, . Not that I would know, .
You also have to remember, no point in OS and Hardware if there is lack of software. Hence A-EON plowing lots of money into software, as well as hardware.
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Old 02 October 2015, 14:52   #27
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FOL, Im quite positive to AOS, AROS, MorphOS in the NG forms, even tho I for the most part use AOS 3.x myself. Got AOS4 FE thru emulation, and at the current price I cant envision myself shelling out for NG hardware (even tho my personal economy is quite healthy).

So, while I usually dont join the pitchfork bunch against AOS hardware choice, its a bit of a chicken and the egg situation.
If AOS was running on Raspberry Pi or off the shelf AMD/Intel hardware I would be very suprise if the sales of AOS wouldnt spike.
I would defintly use it much more, and SOFTWARE sales would increase aswell.
AEONKITs efforts to push for drivers and software for their hardware is applaudable (even tho it moves at glacial speeds compared to what people have gotten used to in todays day and age).

Take Cherry Darling and some other developers that support the Amiga line;
I buy their games since they both make good quality product AND cause they compile PC versions. If they hadnt made a PC version OR Classic, I would leave them with 0 monies.
And AOS4.x thru emulation doesnt support 3D demanding games etc, so...

Ive been looking at SAM 460, but it feels a bit too old, limited and even slow vs the pricetag (kinda ironic coming from a guy that spent 2-300 euros on parts for his A1200, i know).
I realise it isnt fully utilized due to lack of drivers, but thats part of the problem.

I think this is the sentiment of more people than me.

Anyhow, I do wish AeonKit all the best of luck and that software developments doesnt stagnate.
Hopefully CastAR/Jeri can be supported by AOS4.x for example (saw they are sponsors of AmiWest 2015). Tho, again software utilizing it would be needed....

Last edited by Overflow; 02 October 2015 at 15:38.
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Old 02 October 2015, 15:03   #28
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If it was quick and easy to jump to another architecture, theyd probably be on ARM already..
QEMU PowerPC + Toni's mods to it = PowerPC hypervisor on ARM and AmigaOS 4.1 can run without too much effort until something proper for ARM is out (yeah, I know, I'm oversimplyfing it, but still, I think it'd be worth investing money and time into something which can provide a real alternative for the future instead of sourcing over-priced, under-powered PowerPC CPUs)

Not sure if it would be powerful enough though, but from what I've heard the new Cortex A72 are real powerhouses.
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Old 02 October 2015, 19:50   #29
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Choose your door, choose your fate.

x86
+ very powerful
+ CISC like 68k
- little endian only (68k is big endian which creates major problems)
- ugly ISA and encoding

ARM
+ cheap
+ energy efficient
+ bi-endian with little endian default (minor endian problems with 68k)
- RISC (like PPC, different compared to the 68k)
- weak performance in general, especially single core performance

PPC
+ moderately powerful
+ bi-endian with big endian default (no endian problems with 68k)
- RISC (very different compared to the 68k)
- relatively expensive and small selection of mostly embedded CPUs

68k (enhanced)
+ CISC (perfect compatibility with itself)
+ big endian (perfect compatibility with itself)
+ potentially as powerful as x86 (better ISA, encoding, and code density than x86)
+ fully customizable for the Amiga and development can be fully controlled
+ FPGA and ASIC technology is getting cheaper all the time
+ unique and different product is more marketable
- development cost and time is expensive for a small market
- FPGA CPU is weak, ASIC needs quantity or expensive
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Old 02 October 2015, 21:39   #30
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Choose your door, choose your fate.
Choose wisely... ;-)
How future proof is each choice - might also be a factor to consider.

The 68k path is compelling but lets not forget that x86 and most other architectures have a 20 year head start and a couple of billion $$ worth of R&D between them.

Who knows where the Apollo core and FPGA tech/prices will be in 5 years.. hopefully it managed to make an impact.

But honestly, the speed at which Amiga NG is moving forward, in 5 years not much will happen IMO. OS 4.2 maybe ;-)
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Old 03 October 2015, 00:17   #31
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How future proof is each choice - might also be a factor to consider.
IMO, every door except the PPC looks future proof. PPC lost the desktop market to x86/x86_64 years ago, lost most of the console market to x86_64 recently and has gradually been losing market share in telecommunication and automotive embedded markets to ARM. There are unlikely to be any new PPC CPU designs but there may be modifications or enhancements of existing CPU designs, probably for embedded customers.

ARM is actually Thumb 2 CPUs (most existing ARM CPUs) and ARMv8 CPUs (newer more powerful 64 bit CPUs which are more like the PPC). Thumb 2 will continue to be used for low end CPUs and ARMv8 CPUs are likely to take market share from PPC.

The FPGA market is healthy and growing even in this down weak global economy. Intel recently payed a premium price for Altera because of its growth and future outlook. FPGAs should be faster, bigger, cheaper and have more options in 5 years. The embedded market is driving the demand where FPGAs give a cost savings so even if we enter another global great depression the technology is not going to go away.

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The 68k path is compelling but lets not forget that x86 and most other architectures have a 20 year head start and a couple of billion $$ worth of R&D between them.
This is true but x86 started with more baggage and added more ISA mistakes early on. The PPC ISA is too expansive with parts unsupported in hardware which varies from one CPU design to the next. ARM has so many different optional hardware options that it becomes difficult to support. The 68k ISA starts out cleaner anyway, although mistakes could be made. The 68k CPU designs have not been developed but we do have the 68060 to look at which does a lot of things right and mostly avoids what people would expect to be bottlenecks in the 68k (decoding and complex addressing modes). The 68k can beat x86/x86_64, ARM (including Thumb 2) and PPC in average instruction length (smaller is better for superscalar designs) and code density (compactness of code) which are great innate traits. It can be very powerful for its clock speed while probably not clocking as high as some other designs. I think it could be made competitive with other processors but no one wants it, not even A-Eon which maintains course with PPC despite the head winds and icebergs.
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Old 03 October 2015, 01:45   #32
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for those interested in the subject:
https://www.facebook.com/AEonTechnologyLtd
in particular:
https://www.facebook.com/AEonTechnol...138848/?type=3
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Old 03 October 2015, 02:28   #33
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2300 EUR does not sound much cheaper... and for what? A complete system?
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Old 03 October 2015, 05:19   #34
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You think that A-EON would list the specifications prior to the X5000's release, but no. As far as I'm concerned, the AmigaOne line are basically PCs, but the only thing different is that they have OS 4.1 built-in.

To hell with AmigaOne. If I want to run OS 4.1, I would run it in WinUAE or FS-UAE.

PPC Amigas are the cancer to the Amiga itself.

Last edited by B14ck W01f; 03 October 2015 at 05:32.
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Old 03 October 2015, 06:50   #35
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I was hoping it would cost $2000 USD. Why? That was a sweet spot price for the Amiga 2000.
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Old 03 October 2015, 08:13   #36
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i think the price is calculated correctly in order not to upset the people who previously invested into x1k while encouraging them to upgrade, if the system is fully supported with os drivers and even only a bit faster, which is being hinted at. the others, like lower end os4 users or amiga users may not be definite target audience here. also some well off morphos users might be found of alternative hardware.
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Old 03 October 2015, 08:30   #37
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Actually I just read it again. Excluding VAT which I wouldn't pay since I'm in the USA it's close to $2,000.
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Old 03 October 2015, 09:59   #38
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Since I got the classic version of Amig OS4.1 running in WinUAE, my NG Amiga itch went away.
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Old 03 October 2015, 11:20   #39
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Since I got the classic version of Amig OS4.1 running in WinUAE, my NG Amiga itch went away.
No 3D Acceleration in that config unfortunately. No sure why this can't be done if you have a beefy GFX card on the PC. Maybe in the next version of WinUAE?
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Old 03 October 2015, 11:38   #40
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If someone could write a graphics driver for os4.1 to use uaegfx - I think that's the most reasonable way. And then if someone could find a way to map more RAM to get beyond the csppc 128mb fast ram which is what OS4.1 uses. Then we'd be in business!
 
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