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Old 14 September 2015, 12:30   #1
Workbench13
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Demo "Progress" by North Star won't run

Hello there Toni. I seem to have trouble getting this demo called "Progress" by North Star to run with both the latest official WinUAE release as well as with the latest development build. It will freeze and upon start and either give me a garbled screen (when run from the adf, that is, demo number 6) or the upper-lower horizontal lines (when running the standalone exe) which are indeed supposed to be displayed, but that's as far as it's going.

Tested under both default A500 profile, default A500 + cycle exact and with the obligatory ecs/1mb chip ram combinations.

I can't provide the logs and config at this very moment, but I shall soon. In the meantime, though, let somebody else confirm if it's indeed not a problem with my hardware/system.

Best regards.
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File Type: 7z Progress.7z (831.8 KB, 48 views)
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Old 14 September 2015, 14:29   #2
amilo3438
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Use WinUAE configuration:

Quickstart: 1.2 ROM, OCS Agnus, 512 KB Chip RAM + 512 KB Slow RAM

p.s.
Demos of years <=1989 always test first in WinUAE quickstart 1.2 KS configurations before reporting a possible problem!


EDIT:

Btw. on attached "Fairlight-1989Progress.adf" disk at demo No. "3- My Room (1st at phenomena party!)"

I noticed some "overemphasized" green dots around rotating balls!

also visiable on pic here -> http://janeway.exotica.org.uk/release.php?id=799

Is that correct!?

Last edited by amilo3438; 14 September 2015 at 14:52.
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Old 14 September 2015, 16:53   #3
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Thanks for the hint! works perfectly now.

Nevertheless, that's a first for me; I never before encountered a demo that required downgrading from a stock A500 setup. That's not saying there aren't any (or many), but it's so rare a experience for me that the possibility didn't even cross my mind.
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Old 14 September 2015, 18:03   #4
Toni Wilen
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Most common reason for being only KS 1.2 compatible is direct jump to ROM level 3 interrupt routine. (Probably because use of absolute addresses was normal on the C64..). It is very rare, fortunately.

Green stuff is real A1200 confirmed.
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Old 14 September 2015, 20:17   #5
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Alright. Here's another baddie called "Intro 5" by Soft Sonic Force which absolutely refuses to run (everlasting solid workbench-blue screen, nothing going on), this time, however, not even an older kickstart will help.
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Old 14 September 2015, 20:24   #6
Toni Wilen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Workbench13 View Post
Alright. Here's another baddie called "Intro 5" by Soft Sonic Force which absolutely refuses to run (everlasting solid workbench-blue screen, nothing going on), this time, however, not even an older kickstart will help.
Must be Chip RAM only config. Very common problem in old demos.
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Old 14 September 2015, 21:03   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Workbench13 View Post
Alright. Here's another baddie called "Intro 5" by Soft Sonic Force which absolutely refuses to run (everlasting solid workbench-blue screen, nothing going on), this time, however, not even an older kickstart will help.
Tested with QuickStart A600, but also it starts with A1200, even if it goes in Guru. To avoid problems of these things, copy the executable on a bootable floppy and then launch the executable from the command prompt.

Last edited by AMIGASYSTEM; 23 January 2016 at 08:08.
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Old 14 September 2015, 21:14   #8
Toni Wilen
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Originally Posted by AMIGASYSTEM View Post
Tested with QuickStart A600, but also it starts with A1200, even if it goes in Guru.
Don't suggest stupid things. Demo was made long before A600 or A1200 existed! You are randomly selecting random configs until something works. That is pointless.

Quote:
To avoid problems of these things, copy the executable on a bootable floppy and then launch the executable from the command prompt.
What? Executable in floppy drive is same as copying executable to empty adf and booting from it.
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Old 14 September 2015, 21:24   #9
amilo3438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Workbench13 View Post
Alright. Here's another baddie called "Intro 5" by Soft Sonic Force which absolutely refuses to run (everlasting solid workbench-blue screen, nothing going on), this time, however, not even an older kickstart will help.
This demo is from 1987! -> http://janeway.exotica.org.uk/release.php?id=17066

without testing guess it should work with A500 KS 1.2 512KB (w/o slow ram)

Always check the year of the demo in demo database!

like f.ex. this one: http://janeway.exotica.org.uk/search...ent&order=desc
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Old 14 September 2015, 21:30   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amilo3438 View Post
This demo is from 1987! -> http://janeway.exotica.org.uk/release.php?id=17066

without testing guess it should work with A500 KS 1.2 512KB (w/o slow ram)

Always check the year of the demo in demo database!

like f.ex. this one: http://janeway.exotica.org.uk/search...ent&order=desc

Spot on Works in A500, 1.2, 0.5 chip default config.
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Old 14 September 2015, 21:43   #11
Toni Wilen
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Some simple guidelines for selecting A500 demo config:

If very old (~1988 and older) OCS + KS1.2 + 0.5M + no external drives. Never enable external drives when using this config.

"Normal" A500 config: OCS + KS 1.3 + 0.5M + 0.5M (still no external drives, unless it is multi disk demo and it supports multiple drives)

If graphics glitches or screen corruption and 1989+ demo: try with ECS Agnus.

1M Chip RAM requirement is rare. Very few demos only work correctly if A1000 configuration. (Code accidentally depends on original DIP Agnus vblank timing bug)

Booting executable in floppy drive: some demos only work correctly (font glitches) if 80 character mode (Mainly those that use ROM topaz font = very old ones), executable converted to virtual floppy does not have devs:system-configuration = defaults to 60 character mode.

Do not enable ECS Denise. I don't think any existing demo requires it but some demos have only blank screen if enabled. (Code accidentally depends on OCS Denise horizontal strobe bug that was fixed in ECS Denise)

NEVER enable "too good" or "too new" configuration. It only reduces compatibility!
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Old 14 September 2015, 22:37   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
Don't suggest stupid things. Demo was made long before A600 or A1200 existed! You are randomly selecting random configs until something works. That is pointless.
Toni still do not understand, The demo I know it's old and it works well with A500, i just wanted to show that many demos can be start even with the most advanced systems.
Quote:
What? Executable in floppy drive is same as copying executable to empty adf and booting from it.
Here I did not understand what you've written,mine but it was just a simple example, You can also use a hardfile and put in all the demos and then run them from a shell, what's so strange, I have created many compilations on hardfile with booting function keys.

This is my last speech, I shall not participate in any discussions over.
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Old 14 September 2015, 22:56   #13
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This is my last speech, I shall not participate in any discussions over.
Mi rendo conto pienamente, un po 'triste, ma almeno ora si sa che cosa ci si aspetta gratitudine per lo sforzo.

Ps
Potete immaginare quanto è stato per me dopo 3 mesi e mezzo di volontariato.
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Old 14 September 2015, 23:09   #14
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Potete immaginare quanto è stato per me dopo 3 mesi e mezzo di volontariato.
I can understand, I did for 40 years the Fireman without missing a single day of work

Last edited by AMIGASYSTEM; 14 September 2015 at 23:15.
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Old 14 September 2015, 23:24   #15
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I can understand, I did for 40 years the Fireman without missing a single day of work
Ciascuna colata!

Così si scherzava con "discussioni su"...!?

Non andare da nessuna parte, resta qui, non molto soggiorno di noi di rapporti problemi!
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Old 15 September 2015, 08:22   #16
Toni Wilen
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Toni still do not understand, The demo I know it's old and it works well with A500, i just wanted to show that many demos can be start even with the most advanced systems.
Yes but you don't know if it actually work in identical real hardware configuration. Only 1991+ demos are mostly safe to use.

From my personal experience sooner or later I get report like "This demo worked with config [too new hardware config] but does not anymore work with UAE version x.y". Usual reply is: It wasn't even supposed to work, it does not work in real hardware if using same config!

(The higher end and faster the config, the less compatibility with real world hardware)

Quote:
Here I did not understand what you've written,mine but it was just a simple example, You can also use a hardfile and put in all the demos and then run them from a shell, what's so strange, I have created many compilations on hardfile with booting function keys.
Point was: How does it fix demos that only work with chip ram only system? Copying it to floppy or HD won't magically make your fast ram expanded system chip only.
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Old 15 September 2015, 09:26   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
Yes but you don't know if it actually work in identical real hardware configuration. Only 1991+ demos are mostly safe to use.
Here I disagree with you, i had almost all Amiga models "real" basic and expanded and I can assure you that many old demos or games I managed to start them even with my A4000/060, in some difficult cases I was able to start them with one of the many utilities as degrader Run500, NoAGA, [ Show youtube player ], RunIT, KillAGA, ReKick etc..
Finally, in my opinion WinUAE acts like a real machine real Amiga, the demo with a clean start It starts without problems also on a real A600

Last edited by AMIGASYSTEM; 15 September 2015 at 09:46.
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Old 15 September 2015, 13:49   #18
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Some explanations for those that don't know:

1. If you add additional device you will have less memory to use.
Example: Open WinUAE Quickstart normal configuration and another WinUAE with same configuration with just added DF1:. Compare memory usage in Workbench. You will see that you have less memory to use on configuration with DF1:.
Some programs (usually games and demos) uses absolute memory allocation. If some of this programs use function from exec.library to allocate memory (AllocAbs) it will fail and if it just load code at specific location that is used it will crash system. And that is usually what programmer though that is beginning of free memory space (at least it was on his Amiga).

2. Different Kickstarts have different starting memory location of specific functions.
Some old games/demos uses absolute addresses directly from Kickstart ROM and if they try to call some function directly from ROM that is on specific address in KS1.2 ROM and if you use KS1.3 ROM they will crash because on that address is not that code that is in KS1.2 ROM.

Last edited by Tomislav; 15 September 2015 at 14:15.
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Old 15 September 2015, 15:03   #19
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Ok, Tomislav quoto what you said and precise boot from "non" startup-sequence It allows you to use almost all available memory. There have been games in the past such as Capital Punishment, where it was necessary to have 2M RAM CHIP to start the game and this created problems, then all resolved with the release of a patch. I never needed that patch, I created a clean start with a shell in 4 colors, in this way Capital Punishment it starts on A1200 no problem.
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Old 15 September 2015, 17:14   #20
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Must be Chip RAM only config. Very common problem in old demos.
Thank you Toni. Slow gone, all good now
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