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Old 13 September 2015, 23:05   #141
nobody
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I was checking this program looks very interesting. And the source code is available. This is the kind if programs that would be killer apps for Amiga.

http://game-editor.com/Main_Page

And it loads iff. Interesting.

Last edited by nobody; 13 September 2015 at 23:13.
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Old 13 September 2015, 23:14   #142
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Step one: build a framework.

Step two: build editors.

Step three: build game engines around the above.

Note that the Amos compiler should be avoided unless it's rewritten for the last step. AmigaE anyone? It's also open source software...

BTW, AmigaE is written in Assembly so I am halfway joking about using its source code.
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Old 13 September 2015, 23:21   #143
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BTW, AmigaE is written in Assembly so I am halfway joking about using its source code.
so is AMOS...
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Old 13 September 2015, 23:23   #144
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so is AMOS...
That's why the compiler needs rewriting instead of modification.
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Old 14 September 2015, 00:23   #145
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well... let's say no more about AMOS lest it go to "that place" again, but... after i write my own language compiler, i intend to rewrite it in itself.
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Old 14 September 2015, 03:56   #146
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If someone can match the high technical and artistic levels of some of the classics, but also do something original as opposes to sprite swapping Id happily buy.

Why not wrap said game in UAE and offer a win/mac/lin version also? No emulator faffing. Include it in the installer.

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Old 14 September 2015, 05:59   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TenLeftFingers View Post
If someone can match the high technical and artistic levels of some of the classics, but also do something original as opposes to sprite swapping Id happily buy.

Why not wrap said game in UAE and offer a win/mac/lin version also? No emulator faffing. Include it in the installer.

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Amiga emulators are generally GPL and most emulator users aren't used to paying for their software but it's a thought...
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Old 14 September 2015, 10:32   #148
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I dont mean to target emulator users exactly. I mean to make it appear that its just a platform specific executable to the user. The emulator is transparent. Think GOG games. The user doesn't launch Dosbox, just their game.

The fee for the ROM would have to be included in the game price for those platforms. But it could allow bundles to be cheaper.

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Old 14 September 2015, 17:25   #149
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Originally Posted by TenLeftFingers View Post
I dont mean to target emulator users exactly. I mean to make it appear that its just a platform specific executable to the user. The emulator is transparent. Think GOG games. The user doesn't launch Dosbox, just their game.

The fee for the ROM would have to be included in the game price for those platforms. But it could allow bundles to be cheaper.
AROS ROMs are free but not stable yet. I'd like to target AROS 68k or a recent AfaOS patch release. This would make the price point negligible. The main disadvantage of such an arrangement is that we'd need libraries or drivers for AROS that would be as fast and more flexible than the existing AmigaOS 3.x implementation. (Chipset support sucks in the OS and RTG sucks on the chipset versions.)

If we had such drivers and libraries, why waste time with full timing-compatible chipset emulation? Why not just use the new and improved drivers accessed by the improved libraries? If the new libraries could avoid race conditions inherent to hardware banging code that relies on specific timing requirements, we could even get better performance when FPGA-based chipset implementations come out and even make passthrough libraries for OpenGL/MiniGL/TinyGL/Mesa implementations on other systems.
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Old 14 September 2015, 19:18   #150
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As long as it doesn't cause further fragmentation then I don't see any issue. But it's important that the person playing on their Classic Amiga and the person playing it on the windows/mac/lin executable both have quality experiences.

Maybe if a toolkit/IDE is to be developed, this could be an export option?
-> Export to ADF
-> Export to ADF loaded in DF* of emulated 68000 (Win/Mac/Lin) ...
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Old 14 September 2015, 22:58   #151
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It would also be helpful if there were tools or at least macros/scripts for say Photoshop (or other tool) to help converting assets and help with limitations. The game running on PC would obviously use 24bit graphics + 8 bit alpha blend while assets for a 1200 version would need to be downscaled and downgraded to appropriate levels.
Palette juggling in Dpaint is not the 2015 way to do assets for multiple platforms ;-)
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Old 15 September 2015, 01:03   #152
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It would also be helpful if there were tools or at least macros/scripts for say Photoshop (or other tool) to help converting assets and help with limitations. The game running on PC would obviously use 24bit graphics + 8 bit alpha blend while assets for a 1200 version would need to be downscaled and downgraded to appropriate levels.
Palette juggling in Dpaint is not the 2015 way to do assets for multiple platforms ;-)
The Amiga has some good paint programs and descent image manipulation programs. Personal Paint is very good for <=8 bit images, planar manipulation, palette optimization, color remapping, etc. TVPaint is an excellent True color paint program. ImageFX 4, while no Photoshop, can do some of the conversions and image manipulation that TVPaint and PP can not. These software packages are very capable for the price. They have ARexx for macros but I rarely find them necessary. These were the tools I was using effectively when working on web site pics anyway. The Amiga is not very good for importing pics from a digital camera or phone so a PC is generally still required.

The big problem for the 68k Amiga is lack of compiler support and poor code optimization. The 68k and Amiga are both considered dead by most of the computer world. GCC support for the 68k is ancient and non-existent for the Amiga (GCC has never officially supported any Amiga like OS). Development tools and software need to be ported to the Amiga and most are written for GCC. Clang/LLVM is very compatible with GCC but there is no 68k backend and the compiler uses a lot of resources so would likely only be useful as a cross-compiler. Vbcc is a good C cross-compiler with good Amiga support useful for projects which start on the Amiga but it has only fair GCC compatibility, there is no C++ support and the 68k backend generates average code at best. There would probably be some developers who would support the Amiga if it was easy enough to port their software to the Amiga but I expect most find the experience frustrating and/or the resulting software too slow. If developers had Cammy's enthusiasm about the Amiga then this problem would probably be tackled. If new and more powerful Amiga 68k hardware were to sell in sufficient quantity, then this problem would probably be tackled. We need Cammy to promote new 68k Amiga hardware! Problem solved .
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Old 15 September 2015, 01:25   #153
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I was checking this program looks very interesting. And the source code is available. This is the kind if programs that would be killer apps for Amiga.

http://game-editor.com/Main_Page

And it loads iff. Interesting.
This one is open source too
http://www.godotengine.org/projects/godot-engine
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Old 15 September 2015, 01:27   #154
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This discussion is silly...

You can not make games which run on popular platforms (like Windows, consoles, smartphones) and expect them to run with minor changes on classic Amigas. At least not when you want to do more than a text adventure.

I have ported several Retroguru SDL games in C to AmigaOS4 and MorphOS. Games like Sqrxz are really not that demanding. But it simply doesn't work for classic Amigas. Even with a faster "framework" than SDL. No chance!

The 68k Amigas require stripped down graphics and music, and a complete rewrite of the program in assembler, accessing the hardware directly.

BTW, any dreams that somebody without Amiga background would decide to make an Amiga port are foolish. This will never happen. Why should they?

Ports and new games can only come from our small group of enthusiasts.
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Old 15 September 2015, 01:52   #155
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You can not make games which run on popular platforms (like Windows, consoles, smartphones) and expect them to run with minor changes on classic Amigas.
But can you do the opposite?
A game made for the Amiga that you can compile to run on a popular platform?

Now, I'm not sure why you would , but I could see that.

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Old 15 September 2015, 01:59   #156
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This discussion is silly...

You can not make games which run on popular platforms (like Windows, consoles, smartphones) and expect them to run with minor changes on classic Amigas. At least not when you want to do more than a text adventure.

<snip>
You have it backwards. My suggestion was to run amiga apps on amiga and more modern systems - not the reverse. Everyone with an emulator is already doing this. I think if current Amiga devs (of which there are very few) could sell not just on 68k but also on Steam, they would be more motivated.
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Old 15 September 2015, 10:24   #157
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Amiga is not an android and so it has not "apps"
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Old 15 September 2015, 12:30   #158
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Amiga is not an android and so it has not "apps"
I know of nobody that calls them "tools". We also are not on a 68k Mac so they aren't applications either.
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Old 15 September 2015, 18:15   #159
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Totally off-topic, but that always drove me crazy..
We used the word "apps" LONG LONG before the iPhone was a sparkle in Steve's eye..

We'd talk about games and apps...

Then the iPhone comes out, and "apps" are only what you run on phones???

Oh well.. Getting old..

And..

Get off my lawn!!!!! ;-)

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Old 15 September 2015, 20:41   #160
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Totally off-topic, but that always drove me crazy..
We used the word "apps" LONG LONG before the iPhone was a sparkle in Steve's eye..

We'd talk about games and apps...

Then the iPhone comes out, and "apps" are only what you run on phones???

Oh well.. Getting old..

And..

Get off my lawn!!!!! ;-)

desiv
That's my lawn!!!!
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