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Old 09 September 2015, 21:49   #41
desiv
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I'm not sure that kickstarter is a great well to draw water from - i'm a BIG amiga fan and I'm not backing it simply because there isnt a price point for me..
Exactly part of the reason I'm thinking the "possible audience" is larger than I thought... ;-)

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Old 09 September 2015, 21:51   #42
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indeed... 454 is quite a lot for something i'd expect mostly to appeal to fairly hardcore enthusiasts, even i haven't donated to the kickstarter. There must be a much bigger market for a new Amiga game than that, well, maybe it's worth a try.
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Old 09 September 2015, 21:53   #43
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Exactly part of the reason I'm thinking the "possible audience" is larger than I thought... ;-)

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http://amigamap.com/
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Old 09 September 2015, 21:58   #44
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A1200+A4000+CD32 > 2000 AGA machines!

i could work with that... 10 * 2000 > how much i earn in a year
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Old 09 September 2015, 22:00   #45
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But no. of machines is not no. of their owners.
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Old 09 September 2015, 22:04   #46
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that is true... we've got 3 A1200s here and 2 A600s... but probably not every Amiga is on those stats either, so it's all still a bit guesswork.
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Old 09 September 2015, 22:07   #47
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Most of my time is spoken for finishing projects I've been working on for a few years (for pc) that I hope will make me some money (the dream is to quit my day job. I wont just yet :P) but I've always loved learning new hardware and working on specialist stuff (like gp2x!)

I'm considering giving up some of my gaming free time to fiddle with amiga dev and maybe port my endless runner from windows phone - for fun and education not business. If I actually do this (not guranteed) I might release it, free download, and put a tips box up (ie, paypal button :P) "pay what you want, if you want" and use that as a shallow judge of what interest there is in new dev.
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Old 09 September 2015, 22:12   #48
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So lets say there are 2000+ A500 and up machines and you could somehow target them so most get notified.

Then lets say you can sell your game to 500 of them at about $15 (10) or so..
$7500.. Assuming digital release, all 1 person and in their part time... Not bad..

Still not sure anyone is going to quit their day job, but might get some people seriously interested in developing good products..

Of course, the hard part is, even knowing the audience might be larger, how many of them would be willing to buy a new game? Some (many?) people are into Retro only for what it reminds them of... Even if so, how many of those would be interested in YOUR game?
I think 200 is low (if marketed properly and there was a good way for someone to purchase), but I'm also not sure if 500 might not be too high...

It's hard to tell tho, because you KNOW there are more Amiga users than on the map even...

It's an interesting question...

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Old 09 September 2015, 22:12   #49
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One of the best Amiga PD games, was put to a charity website by its author. You can download it freely and if you wish, you can donate to a cancer research. Look how that happened... https://www.justgiving.com/AlienFishFinger/ 22 donations in 4 years...
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Old 09 September 2015, 22:13   #50
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Solid Gold is a really nice game.

Suggestions for two basic platforms to make games for:
1. A500/A600 with 1 MB chip, OCS.
2. A500/A600/A1200 with 2 MB chip, 2 MB fast, 68020 and OCS.

Example configurations for number 2:
A500 Rev 8.x + ACA500 + ACA12xx + chipmem expansion
A600 + ACA620 + chipmem expansion
A1200 + fastmem expansion
Amiga Reloaded + ACA12xx

No AGA? You read it correctly.
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Old 09 September 2015, 22:16   #51
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One of the best Amiga PD games, was put to a charity website by its author. You can download it freely and if you wish, you can donate to a cancer research. Look how that happened... https://www.justgiving.com/AlienFishFinger/ 22 donations in 4 years...
I remember when that first hit..
I tried to donate and the system didn't work for some reason...
That part has to work well!! ;-)

Was going to try again just recently, but the game requires 1MB CHIP. I was looking for stuff for my 1000 at the time..

It's still on my list of possibilities tho..

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Old 09 September 2015, 22:42   #52
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that alien fish finger game looks -amazing-. checking it on youtube and love what im seeing!

...and i've never heard of it before. That is going to be the main issue for any indiedev today who wants to release something on amiga. Regardless of exact amount of potential users there are it will be a lot less than say pc etc so its absolutely imperative that you find them and let them know.

Things like a retweet/share from official commodore social media, mentions at conventions, etc... would go a long way I think. Thwacking a post up on EAB is a good start but I'm only here because its the first result on google when i first searched "amiga forum" - theres plenty of other places people are hiding! Emulation scene is a massive one to advertise in if not release to! etc etc.
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Old 09 September 2015, 23:13   #53
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Tales of gorluth 2 if the 200 necessary pre-orders can be fulfilled, it's well over one hundred now? Well that's some kind of indication of possible sales.
That said, the genre and the fact that it will be a somewhat limited backbone games may put some people off, myself for example.

If I had cash I would support this game but right now cash is tight.

I'd gladly pay 100 euros for a special edition Amiga game. Hmm... this may be the angle, hard to say. A top quality game, lovely big box psygnosis style, t-shirt, soundtrack on a separate cd.
Limited quantities, start with 100 and add more dependent on pre-orders.

Can we do a survey and get it on as many Amiga sites as possible? And some carefully targeted, retro, but not necessarily Amiga retro sites. Perhaps somewhere we could get the word out about a potential game, to perhaps lapsed Amigan's or emulation c64 enthusiasts etc.
A survey couldn't hurt right? It might satiate out curiosity.

Whether some of us would actually make such a game, well that's another question.
I'd certainly support such an endeavor in every way that I could, but hey that's another matter.
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Old 09 September 2015, 23:15   #54
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if there were that much money in it, could be an argument for asking Alex to let me do it in the office!

edit: i mean work on an Amiga game in the office

Last edited by Mrs Beanbag; 09 September 2015 at 23:24.
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Old 10 September 2015, 00:50   #55
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Interesting.. Especially when you realize what a waste of time and effort the wild goose chases known as MorphOS and AROS have been ;-)I
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Old 10 September 2015, 04:20   #56
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The Amiga maps statistics are interesting for sure.
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Old 10 September 2015, 04:27   #57
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Yep or made it compilable on Android/iOS etc, massive market there.
There is unfortunately no market there because Amiga programs expect a mouse, keyboard and/or joystick and there is just no convenient way to reproduce a similar interface with a touch screen.

Phones and tablets are not just computers, they are computers with a voluntarily restrained input method. This allows them to be much more portable and practical than desktop PCs will ever be for *some* tasks but this also means that all programs which require non touchscreen interaction are forever out of their reach.

Computing capacity is not everything, input methods are what matters and emulating a computer via a touchscreen just cannot be practical. It's like driving a bike with a steering wheel: the driving power is the same but this input method will only lead you to the cemetery.

"It can be done" is very different from "it is fun to use". What matters is the user experience and an Amiga driven via a touchscreen with zero software written for it is just not fun at all.
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Old 10 September 2015, 05:26   #58
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If I actually do this (not guranteed) I might release it, free download, and put a tips box up (ie, paypal button :P) "pay what you want, if you want" and use that as a shallow judge of what interest there is in new dev.
The problem is that by setting the game as free you are already priming the buyers with the idea that your game has no value. You are selling yourself short essentially. Scientifically this is called anchoring: people will use the first given value (zero) as reference so you must be very careful to select a neutral one of you want to measure interest.

People who know you will pay higher because they can associate some worth to your person and thus your work but people who have very little information about you and the game will take no risks and go with the suggested value: none.

Measuring real interest is hard, really hard. Scientists who organize these kind of surveys must take an enormous amount of precautions to eliminate all kinds of unconscious biases before they are certain they are measuring the real variable they are interested in.

We like to think that we are rational creatures but we just aren't.

You want an objective amount of interest? Obtain the number of downloads for Amiga ROMs and compare with AmigaForever sales.

Another one: look at the price of Moonstone on eBay. Not many sales but clearly a lot of interest. But it is an absolutely unique and rare game and every one who knows the game knows it so they are willing to get rid of their monies to obtain the real thing instead of a shady rom download with a cracker intro. (Note: the download is shady, not the cracker intro, these are usually nice.)

There is an enormous amount of factors which come into play when attributing a value to a virtual (downloadable game, KS ROM) or physical (game with manual in box) good.

Look at the prices of 16 bit consoles games which have an identical version on Amiga (LotusII, Jungle Strike, Desert Strike, etc.): two to three times the price, and five to twenty times the number of sales, all that with buyers which were on average poorer than Amiga owners.
Buyers who benefited from a zero value offering: got the cracked version.
Buyers who had no choice but to pay: paid the price.

Determining interest is reaaaally hard.
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Old 10 September 2015, 08:41   #59
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There is unfortunately no market there because Amiga programs expect a mouse, keyboard and/or joystick and there is just no convenient way to reproduce a similar interface with a touch screen.

Phones and tablets are not just computers, they are computers with a voluntarily restrained input method. This allows them to be much more portable and practical than desktop PCs will ever be for *some* tasks but this also means that all programs which require non touchscreen interaction are forever out of their reach.

Computing capacity is not everything, input methods are what matters and emulating a computer via a touchscreen just cannot be practical. It's like driving a bike with a steering wheel: the driving power is the same but this input method will only lead you to the cemetery.

"It can be done" is very different from "it is fun to use". What matters is the user experience and an Amiga driven via a touchscreen with zero software written for it is just not fun at all.
I played FIFA on my phone with a "virtual gamepad". Apart from being physical buttons the principle was the same as playing with an actual gamepad.
Virtual joystick could be similar enough I think...
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Old 10 September 2015, 11:29   #60
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There is unfortunately no market there because Amiga programs expect a mouse, keyboard and/or joystick and there is just no convenient way to reproduce a similar interface with a touch screen.
You have a valid point but there are many Android/iOS games that all but require a bluetooth controller to be playable. And even that market is far bigger than active Amiga users. It's also possible to make games that are not input dependant, eg Flappy Bird.
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