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Old 27 August 2015, 19:53   #1
trydowave
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Turbo Express Vs Amiga

Was this thing:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TurboExpress

More powerful than the Amiga?

If not I would like to know why the Amiga couldn't handle a conversion of SF2 as good as this handheld offered.
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Old 27 August 2015, 20:02   #2
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Technically, no. By the way that's the handheld version of the PC-Engine/Turbografx 16 console, they all share the same hardware, so SF2 runs on all of them.

I think it's easier to convert from tile-based graphic setups to other tile-based graphic setups (consoles,, X68000), that's all. Also the fact that it was actually converted by Capcom, which would never happen on the Amiga.

If you look at BC-Kid on the AMiga you realize it can do whatever the PC-engine can and better with the right team handling it.
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Old 27 August 2015, 20:55   #3
trydowave
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Amiga BC-Kid was missing Parallax but its still good. Can't see why they couldn't of added it. The game has a very simple palette.

Do you think that the Amiga could have had a version of Street Fighter 2 at least as good as the PC engine version in the right hands? I know this question has been asked a lot but the Turbo Express was released in 1990 and its a frigging handheld and still it has a beatem up that's better than any on the Amiga.

Annoys me how amateurish the UK gaming industry was back in those days. So many wasted opportunities. (I'm looking at you US Gold and Tiertex)

Last edited by trydowave; 27 August 2015 at 21:00.
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Old 27 August 2015, 22:30   #4
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IMO US gold and tiertex was all about the dough: do the crappy conversion for xmas to sell fast, so was not possible to pour love in it

Last edited by saimon69; 27 August 2015 at 22:38.
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Old 27 August 2015, 22:52   #5
dlfrsilver
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pour some shit you said, where ? lol
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Old 27 August 2015, 23:05   #6
Akira
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trydowave View Post
Amiga BC-Kid was missing Parallax but its still good. Can't see why they couldn't of added it. The game has a very simple palette.
Do you know how to code in 68k assembler to be confidently determining what could or could not have been easy to make?

Again: Turbo Express is a 1:1 PC-Engine.
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Old 28 August 2015, 00:22   #7
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Has Bonk's adventure parallax on TG16? I mean other than the purple planet hanging at the top which is not really parallax scrolling. I mean, unless I'm missing something, miggy's vertical parallax with the copper is a much more prominent and colourful effect.
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Old 28 August 2015, 00:42   #8
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The PC-Engine has only a 8bit CPU, so it's more a software trick when you see some kind of parallax scrolling in games like Magical Chase, Air Zonk or Gate of Thunder.
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Old 28 August 2015, 00:55   #9
trydowave
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akira View Post
Do you know how to code in 68k assembler to be confidently determining what could or could not have been easy to make?

Again: Turbo Express is a 1:1 PC-Engine.
Never said I did. Just thought they might of been able to.

And.. I know.
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Old 28 August 2015, 01:44   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trydowave View Post
If not I would like to know why the Amiga couldn't handle a conversion of SF2 as good as this handheld offered.
The PC Engine's CPU wasn't particularly beefy but the graphics chip supports significantly more numerous, larger and more colourful sprites than the Amiga, which is why it's easier to do SF2 justice on this hardware than on the Amiga.
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Old 28 August 2015, 02:25   #11
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When I see games like Lionheart running on a stock A500 I know that the Amiga could handle Parallax on a game like BC kid. As for SF2. In the right hands I bet we could of had a pretty decent conversion.

Even though SF2 the World Warrior runs like Sh!te and has only two tunes running continuously the game has grown on me over the years. But only if I forget what its trying to be. I cant say the same about that abomination Final Fight.
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Old 28 August 2015, 02:56   #12
Akira
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Your assumptions are based in no real technical knowledge, so what you "know" isn't necessarily true. As much as you'd like to fantasize about it, anyway, there's nothing to change the past and nothing to be done about it now or in the future.
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Old 28 August 2015, 03:02   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trydowave View Post
When I see games like Lionheart running on a stock A500 I know that the Amiga could handle Parallax on a game like BC kid. As for SF2. In the right hands I bet we could of had a pretty decent conversion.
The type of parallax effect used in BCKid PC engine is indeed easy to replicate on the Amiga but it is very important to realize that not all parallax scrollings are created equal.

It is easy both on the PC Engine and one the Amiga to create a parallax effect composed of non-overlapping (that is the key word) horizontal slices covering the entire screen width and scrolling at different speeds.
=> Just modify the scroll registers for each section. For both platforms.
That's the one used in BCKid.

However, some forms of parallax scrolling will always be out of reach of the Amiga: tile based parallax effects where the tiles composing the background part of the scenery are animated so as to simulate that they are scrolling when the rest of the screen is not.
This effects is extensively used on the C64 (Manfred Trenz made great use of it) and on consoles and is a very low-cost way to simulate a parallax layer on hardware which does not technically have multiple layers. (The NEC PC Engine has only one tile layer.)

The Amiga cannot use it because it has bitmap based graphics and scrolling two overlapping parts of the screen at different speeds requires modifying the whole surface of the bitmap which is scrolling and (usually) costs way too much either in CPU or blitter.

This said I think I have found a way to create vertical two layers parallax effect on any bit plane depth at a very reasonable cost but I need to validate the technique before I make a fool of myself officially.
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Old 28 August 2015, 05:13   #14
trydowave
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ReadOnlyCat View Post
The type of parallax effect used in BCKid PC engine is indeed easy to replicate on the Amiga but it is very important to realize that not all parallax scrollings are created equal.

It is easy both on the PC Engine and one the Amiga to create a parallax effect composed of non-overlapping (that is the key word) horizontal slices covering the entire screen width and scrolling at different speeds.
=> Just modify the scroll registers for each section. For both platforms.
That's the one used in BCKid.

However, some forms of parallax scrolling will always be out of reach of the Amiga: tile based parallax effects where the tiles composing the background part of the scenery are animated so as to simulate that they are scrolling when the rest of the screen is not.
This effects is extensively used on the C64 (Manfred Trenz made great use of it) and on consoles and is a very low-cost way to simulate a parallax layer on hardware which does not technically have multiple layers. (The NEC PC Engine has only one tile layer.)

The Amiga cannot use it because it has bitmap based graphics and scrolling two overlapping parts of the screen at different speeds requires modifying the whole surface of the bitmap which is scrolling and (usually) costs way too much either in CPU or blitter.

This said I think I have found a way to create vertical two layers parallax effect on any bit plane depth at a very reasonable cost but I need to validate the technique before I make a fool of myself officially.
I know BC Kid has multi directional scrolling but that green back drop consist of what looks like about 4 colours, forest and volcanos (not sure though). I thought it could be done. Thanks for clearing up that topic. This explains SOTB right. why the first level has so many layers of parallax while the multi directional scrolling levels don't.

On another note. Chuck Rock 2 has some very impressive parallax for an OCS game.

Turrican 2 and Enforcer on the C64 still impress the hell out of me with their hires parallax. Just shows what can be accomplished by the right people.
.
Anyway. Thanks for the response. Informative.

Last edited by trydowave; 28 August 2015 at 05:20.
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Old 28 August 2015, 18:56   #15
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given the hardware in most consoles (tile based backgrounds and plentiful hardware sprites) its much easier to get the most out of the machine.

It takes much more thought and skill to get the best out of the Amiga's hardware. You have to make clever use of the custom chips and you can't always take maximum advantage of clever programming tricks when you are tring to do a conversion from another system.

In general the most technically advanced Amiga games are those written to take advantage of the Amiga hardware and not those converted from another system.
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Old 29 August 2015, 02:00   #16
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@ReadOnlyCat

Forgive my ignorance, but, regarding overlapped parallax layers, doesn't Agony, Ork and Jim Power do that? Or is it something completely different to what you were talking about?

Thx!

Last edited by vulture; 31 August 2015 at 14:59.
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Old 29 August 2015, 02:22   #17
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I love the Amiga. It's the system of my life. In a way, it helped to shape the person I am today.

Having said that, I'll also say this: Back in the day, I never owned a PC-Engine of any sort but I got to test the TurboGrafx-16 that was on display at the local Makro store. This should have been in the early 90's. It was definitely before the A1200 came out and I think the SEGA Megadrive was also a novelty. I remember finding the games incredibly well made (for an 8bit. I knew it was an 8bit despite the 16 in its name. Currently I refer to it as "the 8bit wonder"), the lack of loading time was also a major plus (having had a Spectrum, an Amiga and an overpriced, overpowerer and underperforming PC, i was soooo used to loading times), it had - at least apparently - better FPS/horizontal scrolling, the media in which the games came were great (the HuCards are no longer or thicker than a credit card. no need to worry about swapping slow, complex, underspaced, cumbersome and fragile disks), etc. I also remember that the price wasn't all that expensive and the gamepad was cool. I tested some Shoot-em-up and some Sports games that, honestly, I can't recall the names now.

Based on that first experience - which was positive - I have since tested several PC-Engine games via emulation. From that I was able to say that the PC-Engine (in whatever form you choose to address it as) IS better than the Amiga in some things.

So, without trying to go into technical mumbo-jumbo that frankly I couldn't care less about, I'll say that for pure arcade gaming the PC-Engine seems to be the best machine. The Amiga is better for everything else (strategy games, simulators, "serious" gaming in general) and, of course, it's much more versatile. So, if I had to pick just one, it would be the Amiga, but even with all the emotions related to it still raging, I am still able to see that the PC-Engine had more colours on screen, had faster scrolling and was overall better at making arcade games (as is epitomised by the Street Fighter 2 game).
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