English Amiga Board Amiga Lore


Go Back   English Amiga Board > Main > Retrogaming General Discussion

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 03 September 2015, 17:47   #61
eXeler0
Registered User

eXeler0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Sweden
Age: 43
Posts: 1,388
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebel-CD32 View Post
I just played Wilczy Szaniec on my A500 and can confirm it really does run as smoothly as it does in the video. Surprised the hell out of me! Definitely the smoothest 3D FPS engine I've ever seen on the A500.
Well then, looks like this thread finally dug out the answer I was looking for.
(Even though its a Wolf clone, not so much Doom)
Anyhoo, thanx all for digging deep "on the internets" 😆
eXeler0 is offline  
AdSense AdSense  
Old 04 September 2015, 05:22   #62
ReadOnlyCat
Code Kitten

 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Montreal/Canadia
Age: 46
Posts: 1,001
I must correct myself since I was too clearly too hasty when I wrote the replies below:

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReadOnlyCat View Post
Oh, interesting. But they use a trick not accessible to the Amiga. (Cf below.)
[...]
There are plenty of reasons actually:
[...]
- the game seems to make very smart use of tiled graphics: if you look carefully you will notice jaggies (especially on surfaces almost perpendicular to the line of sight) which would not be there if they used proper per pixel texture mapping. This means that they probably have pre rendered tiles containing the various angles and depths of the walls and just choose the most suited tile for each group of 8x8 pixels. This makes updating the screen much faster than a bitmap of the equivalent size.
Urgh, so many suppositions with so little data. I am feeling a bit ashamed of myself there. Let's just say that they *might* have use pre rendered tiles but this is in no way certain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReadOnlyCat View Post
- the MD is not slowed down by display DMA so the CPU roams free while the whole display is rendered by the VDP, on the Amiga the CPU can only access memory during the cycles not taken by display, copper and blitter. They might be using that free time to generate some of the tiles displayed.
- the MD has chunky-ish pixel definitions so it probably is simpler to do live texture mapping than on planar architecture like the miggy, I am not excluding the possibility that planar texture mapping might be made efficient but for now I certainly have no idea how to do it.
I made two errors here:
  • First, the MD has other limitations, with only 64 KB of VRAM it is frequent to need to do DMA transfers from the 68k RAM or ROM and both do stall the CPU significantly. This is a trade off quite similar to the one between use of the blitter and CPU on the Amiga and from what I understand of the MD's hardware, this might actually deprive the 68k from all bus access which not even the blitter does.
  • Second, the MD might have chunky type pixels in tiles but tiles are not organized in a way which makes texture mapping necessarily easy. It might not be as impractical as planar architectures seem to be but still not perfectly suited to the task (cf this fantastically interesting thread on sega-16 about StarFox like polygon rendering on the MegaDrive/Genesis).

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReadOnlyCat View Post
Which would probably take enormous amounts of memory, which is why I think they probably render some of the tiles on the fly from a pre-calculated set of reference depths and angles.
This, ladies and gentlemen of the Amiga-friendly category, is a perfect illustration of me being out of my mind. Speculating that a method might have been used when you have yourself no idea if said method even makes sense is just ludicrous. I am not sure who was in control of my brain at that time but it was definitely not the person I am at this moment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by waldiamiga View Post
Soon to reveal the source code and the last demo created by author.
I cannot wait!
A note in passing: the textures clearly have been modified a lot, they contain a lot less high frequency information than the original ones: more flat surfaces and less variation. I guess the source code will reveal whether this is a factor in the impressive rendering speed but I would guess it is.
ReadOnlyCat is offline  
Old 04 September 2015, 07:46   #63
Samurai_Crow
Total Chaos forever!

Samurai_Crow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Ft. Collins, CO USA
Age: 42
Posts: 869
Send a message via Yahoo to Samurai_Crow
I would assume that the Polish Wolfenstein clone uses 4 bit chunky with an upscaling c2p routine.
Samurai_Crow is offline  
Old 04 September 2015, 19:04   #64
waldiamiga
Registered User

waldiamiga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Kraków, Poland
Posts: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReadOnlyCat View Post
I cannot wait!
You have to wait. It will be soon on ppa.pl
waldiamiga is offline  
Old 06 September 2015, 02:51   #65
ReadOnlyCat
Code Kitten

 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Montreal/Canadia
Age: 46
Posts: 1,001
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldiamiga View Post
You have to wait. It will be soon on ppa.pl
I was joking, I will gladly wait.

[b]Errata:_/b]
Are you the Waldi who is listed in the game's credits?
If so, you have my congratulations and thanks for this port, this seems like a fantastic effort!


Sorry, I misremembered the "Hali" from the game into "waldi".
Still, please congratulate the author if you have access to him/her!

Last edited by ReadOnlyCat; 06 September 2015 at 03:04. Reason: Added errata.
ReadOnlyCat is offline  
Old 23 September 2015, 23:00   #66
waldiamiga
Registered User

waldiamiga's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Kraków, Poland
Posts: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReadOnlyCat View Post
I was joking, I will gladly wait.

[b]Errata:_/b]
Are you the Waldi who is listed in the game's credits?
If so, you have my congratulations and thanks for this port, this seems like a fantastic effort!


Sorry, I misremembered the "Hali" from the game into "waldi".
Still, please congratulate the author if you have access to him/her!
Hey.
Source code & Demo also available to ppa.pl
www.ppa.pl/rodzynki/wilczy-szaniec.html
The author has published documentation by the way how to make the game FFP for the Amiga, but in Polish.
Maybe someone else this will make an interesting game.
Sorry for my bad Englis

Last edited by waldiamiga; 23 September 2015 at 23:03. Reason: Maybe someone else this will make an interesting game. Sorry for my bad Englis
waldiamiga is offline  
Old 24 September 2015, 00:30   #67
eXeler0
Registered User

eXeler0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Sweden
Age: 43
Posts: 1,388
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldiamiga View Post
Hey.
Source code & Demo also available to ppa.pl
www.ppa.pl/rodzynki/wilczy-szaniec.html
The author has published documentation by the way how to make the game FFP for the Amiga, but in Polish.
Maybe someone else this will make an interesting game.
Sorry for my bad Englis
Cool thanx, hope Google Translate isn't too terrible at Polish. ;-)
Btw, something wrong with the link above, but this one works:
http://www.ppa.pl/rodzynki/wilczy-szaniec.html

and Google Translated:
https://translate.googleusercontent....Q25DsYkJ98Mo5Q

Last edited by eXeler0; 24 September 2015 at 00:37.
eXeler0 is offline  
Old 17 October 2015, 03:22   #68
ReadOnlyCat
Code Kitten

 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Montreal/Canadia
Age: 46
Posts: 1,001
Quote:
Originally Posted by s2325 View Post
"Wilczy Szaniec" is translated "Wolfenstein".
I actually found this by typing "Wilczy Szaniec" in Spotlight on my Mac while checking if I had already downloaded the archive:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf%27s_Lair

I guess Id Software did do their homework at that time but decided for "Wolfenstein" rather than "Wolfsschanze" given that the former sounds much better in English.
ReadOnlyCat is offline  
Old 17 October 2015, 10:50   #69
eXeler0
Registered User

eXeler0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Sweden
Age: 43
Posts: 1,388
Btw... whatever happened to Alcatraz / IQ
[ Show youtube player ]
If it was legit, it probably was the most impressive engine on a 020...
eXeler0 is offline  
Old 17 October 2015, 10:58   #70
vulture
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Athens , Greece
Posts: 661
I don't think anything particular happened out of it. I see no reason it wasn't legit. No AI or moving sprites though, so the final product would be a bit slower/choppier.
vulture is offline  
Old 17 October 2015, 15:34   #71
eXeler0
Registered User

eXeler0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Sweden
Age: 43
Posts: 1,388
The next follow-up question then would be if the source found it's way to the public
(Can only see the demo on Aminet)
eXeler0 is offline  
Old 17 October 2015, 17:08   #72
Samurai_Crow
Total Chaos forever!

Samurai_Crow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Ft. Collins, CO USA
Age: 42
Posts: 869
Send a message via Yahoo to Samurai_Crow
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReadOnlyCat View Post
I actually found this by typing "Wilczy Szaniec" in Spotlight on my Mac while checking if I had already downloaded the archive:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolf%27s_Lair

I guess Id Software did do their homework at that time but decided for "Wolfenstein" rather than "Wolfsschanze" given that the former sounds much better in English.
Instead of doing their homework they probably played this game on their C64: [ Show youtube player ].
Samurai_Crow is offline  
Old 17 October 2015, 17:31   #73
desiv
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Salem, OR
Posts: 1,173
Quote:
Originally Posted by Samurai_Crow View Post
Instead of doing their homework they probably played this game on their C64: [ Show youtube player ].
Actually, Romero played the original version on his Apple II. He was a big Apple II guy and liked that game. He's mentioned this before..

desiv
desiv is offline  
Old 17 October 2015, 17:46   #74
s2325
Zone Friend

s2325's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Gargore
Age: 37
Posts: 17,523
It's also for Amiga:
/Commodore_Amiga/TOSEC/Compilations/Games (TOSEC-v2012-12-20_CM)/Astronut & Wise Man - Simpsons & Pick Out & Top Cat & Castle Wolfenstein (1991)(Valhalla).zip
/Commodore_Amiga/TOSEC/Games/Public Domain - [ADF] (TOSEC-v2012-12-24_CM)/Castle Wolfenstein (19xx)(Section 8).zip
/Commodore_Amiga/TOSEC/Games/Public Domain - [ADF] (TOSEC-v2012-12-24_CM)/Castle Wolfenstein (19xx)(Section 8)[f Airwares][h Astronut - Wise Man].zip
/Commodore_Amiga/TOSEC/Games/Public Domain - [ADF] (TOSEC-v2012-12-24_CM)/Castle Wolfenstein (19xx)(Section 8)[m intro removed].zip
but I think you need to know keyboard layout.
s2325 is online now  
Old 26 July 2016, 19:27   #75
s2325
Zone Friend

s2325's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Gargore
Age: 37
Posts: 17,523
Quote:
Originally Posted by s2325 View Post
You can try Project Battlefield [ Show youtube player ] or Project Intercalaris https://youtu.be/lRmJR18jVaQ?t=284 I had both games on my A500, it's playable but it's hard to aim.
Project Battlefield on faster CPU [ Show youtube player ]
s2325 is online now  
Old 29 July 2016, 00:46   #76
eXeler0
Registered User

eXeler0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Sweden
Age: 43
Posts: 1,388
Btw... What kind of Black Magic / Witchcraft went into this "port" (well, bit of a stretch but anyway) of DukeNukem 3d on the humble MegaDrive?

[ Show youtube player ]

It's like the good Duke entered the world of Wolfenstein, but still Damn impressive.

Coders out there, are you impressed?


Skickat frĺn min HTC One via Tapatalk
eXeler0 is offline  
Old 29 July 2016, 12:15   #77
twiggy

twiggy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Devon, U.K.
Age: 28
Posts: 321
I think Death Mask would be more acceptable on a plain A500 with strafing.
twiggy is offline  
AdSense AdSense  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
music prog for vanilla A500 Vaninna support.Apps 10 14 March 2015 06:22
A bejewelled clone, deviish clone, columns clone Gordon Looking for a game name ? 10 16 June 2014 19:28
Amy A500-clone in miniITX fryguy Amiga scene 31 18 June 2013 19:04
Possible to port Alien Breed 3D maps to Doom? (I know AB3D has features Doom can't) dex Coders. General 2 21 January 2012 22:06
Vanilla Ice techmain request.Music 0 01 September 2010 03:39

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 13:51.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Page generated in 0.22378 seconds with 11 queries