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Old 16 August 2015, 09:28   #1
s2325
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GameSack: The Amiga CD32

Amiga CD32 on Game Sack [ Show youtube player ]
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Old 16 August 2015, 10:51   #2
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Oh well, they done good job, could select few more games, but they give good pros and cons about cd32.
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Old 16 August 2015, 10:52   #3
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They should read game manuals or watch recorded gameplay.
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Old 16 August 2015, 20:26   #4
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GameSack: The Amiga CD32

One of the shows I regular YouTube shows I catch has done an episode on the CD32

'Episode 140 - Commodore released this peculiar system in September of 1993 and it was marketed as 32-bit. It only lasted until April of 1994. Let's take a look at the system and some of its games!'

[ Show youtube player ]
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Old 16 August 2015, 22:46   #5
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It is a nice and well balanced episode even if it shows that they do not have an extensive knowledge of the Amiga(s) game library.

They could have been really harsh on the console and its library but they clearly did their best to highlight some good games out there. It is fairly obvious that they did not have access to the whole library nor did have much time to dig through it but it is a good coverage overall with a slightly longer duration moreover.

I hope they get to do an A500 episode one day. Joe Redifer clearly knows about the Amiga as he has mentioned the machine briefly in multiple episodes but I am fairly certain neither of them has one nor has access to a good library of games for it so I will not be holding my breath.

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They should read game manuals or watch recorded gameplay.
It takes an enormous amount of time to prepare such an episode and they could not do without taking shortcuts especially since they are not Amiga owners. These guys do this on their spare time, they cannot afford to spend too much time researching all the tips and tricks of he games they mentioned.

They can do it for the consoles because that is a field they know by heart but with the limited amount of time they can work on for each episode we cannot reasonably expect (nor demand) pro-level journalism.

If you want them to do it full time though, I would recommend to sponsor them via their patreon account. I chose to pay 4$ a month which is essentially 2$ per video, i.e., less than what I pay for coffee in a day.

Last edited by ReadOnlyCat; 16 August 2015 at 23:35.
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Old 17 August 2015, 00:02   #6
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But it is not a fail of the game that they can not work out how to change weapons...

As a longterm Amiga maniac, I can agree with their overall CD32 rating. The machine is bad. Compared to anything comparable, it just fails.
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Old 17 August 2015, 00:44   #7
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Interesting summary; initial, unexpected open-mindedness followed by a dash of xenophobia. The logic behind choosing the Genesis version of Robocod over the Amiga was pretty weak for instance. It boils down to 'ugh, it's all a bit European'.

A lot of what they concluded was fair and honest, but it's like a stranger having a pop at your family. It may be true, but you still won't stand for it.
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Old 17 August 2015, 01:50   #8
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This is the sad truth, no matter how much we love Amigas and their games, a lot of them, especially the AGA ones, paled in comparison to its contemporary console fiends. I wouldn't blame the hardware completely, though, but pit a CD-32 against a Playstation, and there's just no chance, particularly at a time that everything was going 3D.

Notice that throughout the review they keep saying "doesn't look 32-bit". A game released nowadays for a modern console or machine, that has pixel graphics, is usually called in reviews as "16 bit looking" at best, no matter how complex or detailes the graphics and things going on are, so they would have never found any game "32 bit" because it just wasn't Playstation-type 3D graphics (have this article for reference regarding this subject: http://www.dinofarmgames.com/a-pixel...ces-pixel-art/).

In brief, this review pretty much hits the nail right in the head. The CD32 was unfortunately plagued with Amiga ECS or AGA shovelware that at times wouldn't even take advantage of extra joypad buttons, and even what we consider good AGA games wasn't many times on par with what the console market would bring out. The "it looks European" criticism is fair because it really means that games came from a different viewpoint. American, Japanese and European games are quite different in approach to each other and this is what the reviewers kept referring to.

PS: I love my Amigas and especially my CD32, just so you don't think I'm some kind of Atari user
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Old 17 August 2015, 04:00   #9
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It is great to see the cd32 reviewed. Although Unfortunately I was more often hearing about Genesis and snes game versions of the games instead of what they're supposed to be reviewing.
Also hearing why weren't games made specifically as 32bit instead of 16bit looking games.
Not much spark in the video I believe which leads me to believe there wasn't much interest from the reviewers in the first place.
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Old 17 August 2015, 08:20   #10
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They reviewed it as someone who has never owned one. They tried out various games and gave their opinion. The sad truth most were ports and very little took full advantage of the hardware. It not that they were not interested they just could not see what real advantage it had over 16 bit machines. It's a sad truth that Commodore squandered the CD32 so very few games really took advantage of its CD soundtrack capability. Sadly it was a machine that had potential but never really got started.
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Old 17 August 2015, 23:13   #11
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Thx for the link. I did not know these two guys so far but have allready watch a few videos from their channel. If you compare their summary to other consoles, the cd32 is a not so bad videogameconsole if it's based on the games compared to other failed videogame systems.

What I don't get. They often name it also in different videos. What is the feeling of a european platformer? It's sound like a describing to downgrade something. Like you would say "Ok, platformers from europe looks nice, but they are so bad if it comes to gameplay". Sounds like an offence.
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Old 17 August 2015, 23:48   #12
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Take an European platformer, an American one and a Japanese one. You will soon feel the differences.
I think they just prefer the gameplay of Japanese ones.
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Old 18 August 2015, 00:12   #13
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Take an European platformer, an American one and a Japanese one. You will soon feel the differences.
I think they just prefer the gameplay of Japanese ones.
And I think I might end up like that as well.

I was "raised" on Amiga European platformers/gameplay, SuperFrog etc. but never played a single Japanese one and overall I had never been a big fan of the genre in general.

Recently I bought a used Genesis (MegaDrive) and the game MonsterWorld IV and I was floored. Perfect, super precise controls, simple but varied animations, instant reaction, just the right amount of Inertia. It was simply an experience I had never had with any Amiga platformer and made me reconsider the genre entirely. (Turrican would be the only one to come close.)

After that I played a bit of the fantastic Lionheart and found myself struggling like mad to achieve control of the character. Doable but so much effort just to reach the stage when you can finally enjoy the gameplay.
Clearly the European platform games would have gained a lot if their developers had played more Japanese games.
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Old 18 August 2015, 00:22   #14
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Suffice to say I agree with their views on European games of back then, they were always a little bit off gameplay wise. Lots of focus on technicalities and how games look and sound, but not on perfecting game design. I would say it has to do with the demoscene ethos of always trying to push the hardware more, many times without any real reason but showing off.

Games like Elfmania which look amazing but play like absolute garbage are a good example, and unfortunately there are many of them out there.
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Old 18 August 2015, 01:19   #15
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What we excelled at were the quirky, innovative and original games that wouldn't have emerged from US or Japanese developers because they played it too safe and were ham-strung by shareholders and timid management long before the European market became infected by the same virus. Games like Wizkid, Syndicate, Worms and so on. A stronger focus on these would have presented the Amiga ethos (not necessarily the CD32) in a better light.

What isn't up for debate is that Joe and Dave simply aren't compatible with comedy. It's like watching archetypal 'dad dancing' at a wedding, only more cringe-worthy.
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Old 18 August 2015, 02:16   #16
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What we excelled at were the quirky, innovative and original games that wouldn't have emerged from US or Japanese developers because they played it too safe
How is that a true statement when all that happened back then was that European developers were just trying to copy the games they saw on the consoles to try to keep competitive? And earlier games, well, not all of them were really any innovative. I can count with the fingers of my hands the truly unique titles the Amiga has gotten into the world (Lemmings being the prominent one).

Amiga devs were usually always looking to the side to see what they'd do. They wanted action games like the arcades or consoles. They wanted strategy and "serious" games like PCs. It's really a bit sad.
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Old 18 August 2015, 03:31   #17
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Well I think Populous is a good example of original amiga innovation that started a genre, Mega lo mania another classic, Lemmings, Worms, Sensible Soccer, Cannon Fodder, Chaos Engine, Elite/Frontier, Simon The Sorcerer, Beneath A Steel Sky, Formula 1, Last Ninja 3, Turrican II, AnotherWorld, Wings, and countless others.
I think the amiga had a much more diverse and interesting catalogue than any game console at the time.
To say that the Amiga was just trying to badly emulate other systems does the format a disservice.
The Amiga was innovating when the pc only had monochrome graphics, long before the "genesis" & "Famicom where thought of. Even during the A1200 era it had a strong enough & unique game library to compete on a similar level with the other formats, even held back by the incompetent commodore managment.
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Old 18 August 2015, 06:03   #18
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Quote:
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Well I think Populous is a good example of original amiga innovation that started a genre, Mega lo mania another classic, Lemmings, Worms, Sensible Soccer, Cannon Fodder, Chaos Engine, Elite/Frontier, Simon The Sorcerer, Beneath A Steel Sky, Formula 1, Last Ninja 3, Turrican II, AnotherWorld, Wings, and countless others.
Another World, Populous, Lemmings, Worms, Cannon Fodder, Wings: ok. (Maybe MegaLoMania but I don't know the game.)

Sensible Soccer, Chaos Engine, Last Ninja 3, TurricanII: these are just evolutions of existing genres (very well made, but not revolutionary).

The lead for these was not the Amiga:
C64: Turrican (Manfred Trenz), Last Ninja3
ST: Elite/Frontier
PC: Beneath a Steel SKy

What we remember (rightly, because that is how we experienced it then) as "Amiga" and "new" is not necessarily so Amiga nor so new.

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I think the amiga had a much more diverse and interesting catalogue than any game console at the time.
I am not saying I disagree but I have changed my opinion about that from "yes" to "it is very difficult to determine" after I recently started playing games on a MegaDrive/Genesis. There are many game types on the platform which do not exist on the Amiga at all: JRPGs notably which I regret discovering only now because some of them are fantastic (Phantasy Star IV for example). (It is a shame moreover because the Amiga could have handled them like a breeze.)

The more I know, the more nuanced my opinion becomes and the more pointless it seems to favour a side over the other. I can see problems and qualities on both sides. The fact that I and Akira criticize some european styles does not mean we are throwing the baby with the bath water and reject all of them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deaths_Head View Post
To say that the Amiga was just trying to badly emulate other systems does the format a disservice.
It feels to me that Akira did not mean to make such a broad generalization but rather tried to paint a general feeling given by many (not all) European games of the 80-90s. Too often (but not always) the emphasis was on technicity rather than gameplay and re-playing these old games alongside those of other platforms can sometimes make their flaws quite obvious.

But that does not mean that the Amiga did not have great games.
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Old 18 August 2015, 08:10   #19
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Video games are an expression of art. So it goes with the culture of the place it was made. Amiga is a genuine american. So it is (or tries to be) friendly, explores new technologies, prefers brute force instead of being elegant, optimistic and luxurious. Also overweight with hardware
Amiga software comes from northern europe so it is disciplined, traditional without trying to invent the world. Being disciplined holds back invention some times.
Japanege video games & consoles then are intelligent, polite, shy, want to create intense feelings when they do art. They prefer action instead of words. It goes with the culture.

Atari st on the other hand was made by atari, who's president was northern european so it prefers being traditional and conservative. Simple?

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Old 18 August 2015, 08:26   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akira View Post
How is that a true statement when all that happened back then was that European developers were just trying to copy the games they saw on the consoles to try to keep competitive? And earlier games, well, not all of them were really any innovative. I can count with the fingers of my hands the truly unique titles the Amiga has gotten into the world (Lemmings being the prominent one).

Amiga devs were usually always looking to the side to see what they'd do. They wanted action games like the arcades or consoles. They wanted strategy and "serious" games like PCs. It's really a bit sad.
Well, when it's easy and cheap (no licensing costs for example) to produce games for a platform, you're bound to get a tonne of dross and 'me-toos' along with the gems. It just means you have to be more discerning as a consumer.
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