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Old 13 August 2015, 23:52   #1
eXeler0
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Apollo CPU forum wiped?

What happened to this forum? Anyone?
http://www.apollo-core.com/knowledge.php
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Old 14 August 2015, 01:31   #2
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Strange. Probably just an error when updating the forum. I hope.
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Old 14 August 2015, 07:36   #3
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Heard that its database crashed when moving to a new server.
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Old 14 August 2015, 18:50   #4
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Maybe Jens sabotaged it, he hates anything Apollo
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Old 15 August 2015, 00:37   #5
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Maybe Jens sabotaged it, he hates anything Apollo
Somehow, I first read that as: 'Maybe Jens shagged it, he hates anything Apollo!
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Old 15 August 2015, 00:56   #6
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LOL, I'm sure he'll realise his mistake that it's not a reboot of the Apollo Accelerator he bought all the rights for
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Old 20 August 2015, 11:59   #7
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forum database migration error, the projects very much alive and progressing on their freenode irc channel still.
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Old 22 August 2015, 10:30   #8
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forum database migration error, the projects very much alive and progressing on their freenode irc channel still.
You're probably right and I can see how they don't see it as a high priority to fix it for the "outside world" but its no mystery that if a server glitch still isn't fixed after a week, ppl will start to speculate about the reason behind it...
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Old 24 August 2015, 06:44   #9
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If you really want an answer, go find biggun on freenode on their irc channel. He gets on there fairly often of a evening but he doesn't tend to hang about.
I don't think he cares at all about the forum except as a means to communicate between the core team, of which I have no connection to apart from lurking there occasionally to improve my own knowledge of fpga's and how these things work.
I base this on the fact I wanted to sign up for the forum a couple of months ago to pre-order the v2, and never got the sign up email, so I went on irc and asked him about it and he said there were sign up problems.
Its not how I'd run a project (bit closed and secretive for my liking, but then isnt that the amiga way through history?), but then, theyre actually there doing it despite a lot of verbal mud thrown their way from various quarters so who am I to judge.
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Old 25 August 2015, 00:59   #10
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The rumours are erm spreading like wildfire. Look that there forest, the purest distillation of truth is now a bedraggled flaming mess. Run, Run,Run!!!
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Old 25 August 2015, 14:50   #11
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Its not how I'd run a project (bit closed and secretive for my liking, but then isnt that the amiga way through history?)
It's still the case today, most likely because people announce a product and then get attacked when they don't deliver it on time and under budget. So the safest thing to do is get at least 95% of the development done before making any publicity moves...
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Old 25 August 2015, 14:52   #12
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It's still the case today, most likely because people announce a product and then get attacked when they don't deliver it on time and under budget. So the safest thing to do is get at least 95% of the development done before making any publicity moves...
I agree with this 100%.
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Old 26 August 2015, 02:13   #13
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I agree with this 100%.
Sensible yes. If only the Natami team had thought of this.
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Old 26 August 2015, 11:48   #14
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It's still the case today, most likely because people announce a product and then get attacked when they don't deliver it on time and under budget. So the safest thing to do is get at least 95% of the development done before making any publicity moves...
only, then the project will fail on last 5%.

going public and being open about projects en course is completely fine and has not proven to be damaging. on the contrary. it entirely depends on the projects themselves, their reasonability and the people behind. so far guys like igor and gunnar already delivered a lot, when you count the core and the vampire boards in the hands of people out there. likely there is more to expect, and constantly dragging out natami, someones private project, which was hyped beyond recognition, the forum flooded with tons of dumbest posts and offtopic, as negative example is not fair in this comparison. and probably one of the reasons why apollo core isnt maintained.
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Old 26 August 2015, 13:18   #15
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It was a vague example, and "at least". Take it as 100% then, or at whatever point the project is absolutely guaranteed to be completed - perhaps publicity shouldn't be pursued until the product is actually sitting there, ready to be shipped or downloaded. Yes, of course there are examples on the other side of the coin that have been completed successfully and that have many happy users, but with a disproportionate amount of people hopping on every announcement in the Amiga circles and tearing it to shreds when it gets delayed or changed, it only makes sense to not announce anything, even if the project is guaranteed to finish on time. That way, you completely avoid the risk of having to deal with all that negative Amiga "spirit" when things don't come to fruition.
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Old 26 August 2015, 14:53   #16
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It was a vague example, and "at least". Take it as 100% then, or at whatever point the project is absolutely guaranteed to be completed - perhaps publicity shouldn't be pursued until the product is actually sitting there, ready to be shipped or downloaded. Yes, of course there are examples on the other side of the coin that have been completed successfully and that have many happy users, but with a disproportionate amount of people hopping on every announcement in the Amiga circles and tearing it to shreds when it gets delayed or changed, it only makes sense to not announce anything, even if the project is guaranteed to finish on time. That way, you completely avoid the risk of having to deal with all that negative Amiga "spirit" when things don't come to fruition.
if it was all only about buying gadgets, then yes. but its also interesting to follow the project, even if it does not end up being a product. so was my experience with natami. i have not really expected it to hit the market, and i always opted to develop accelerator board, at least initially. as it turns out, the natami experience went exactly into that. i see it as a win-win situation.

similarly its interesting to follow other open developments, like these of strim, or aros, or replacement libraries. no matter if one is directly involved or not. what though is very damaging is secretive attitude, dropping announcements and vague hints, making people buy into incomplete products, leading people by their noses and then delivering nothing, silently giving up, leaving people in darkness about it.. them hoping that the work "continues behind the scenes" and constantly discussing how it "gets done" when another "two weeks" have passed.. yes. this is very annoying.
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Old 26 August 2015, 16:21   #17
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Thats why I mentioned too secretive. I don't see much value in keeping Amiga things secret in 2015, there's no real money left to be had and the few remaining buyers are by and large wary about spending out on this years shiny after decades of it. The only commercial interests are about selling the brand tacked onto some alien architecture like the commodore phone while picking over the well rotted corpse of enthusiasts goodwill.

I'm not talking about announcements and hype buildup, because I don't think theyre trying to make a commercial product and walk away with a big wad of $$$, but more like, you can see progress on some release notes or checkin comments on some open cvs or git repo. I'd love to check out work in progress, and roll up my sleeves and see if there's some bug or something I can help with, but it doesn't happen this way.

I did ask Gunnar if the "source" to the core would ever become open and viewable because I have a real interest in seeing how the core works inside and maybe even help find a bug or two as I have done some low level 68k in the past, and he told me simply "Never". On reflection I'm not sure if he meant it would never be released under the GPL, or just never released under any license, lgpl, bsd or whatever.

I am however pointing out anyone can pose the question at the people directly if they really want to get answers rather than stir up discussion on a forum. They do answer. Even if its not the answer you wanted.
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Old 26 August 2015, 18:34   #18
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Thats why I mentioned too secretive. I don't see much value in keeping Amiga things secret in 2015, there's no real money left to be had and the few remaining buyers are by and large wary about spending out on this years shiny after decades of it. The only commercial interests are about selling the brand tacked onto some alien architecture like the commodore phone while picking over the well rotted corpse of enthusiasts goodwill.

I'm not talking about announcements and hype buildup, because I don't think theyre trying to make a commercial product and walk away with a big wad of $$$, but more like, you can see progress on some release notes or checkin comments on some open cvs or git repo. I'd love to check out work in progress, and roll up my sleeves and see if there's some bug or something I can help with, but it doesn't happen this way.

I did ask Gunnar if the "source" to the core would ever become open and viewable because I have a real interest in seeing how the core works inside and maybe even help find a bug or two as I have done some low level 68k in the past, and he told me simply "Never". On reflection I'm not sure if he meant it would never be released under the GPL, or just never released under any license, lgpl, bsd or whatever.

I am however pointing out anyone can pose the question at the people directly if they really want to get answers rather than stir up discussion on a forum. They do answer. Even if its not the answer you wanted.
personally, even if i dont see open source universally as best choice, i think that in the amiga and post-amiga scene this is amost only senbsible alternative. still we have to respect the authors choices, especially that they might have their reasons. its gunnars and his friends work, and they may do with it what they want. they already have given away their core for free. they might even have some plans what concerns its usage outside amiga community.. who can tell? and if they succeed it might be beneficial, even if it was kept closed.

what concerns secretiveity, i dont consider gunnars behavious secretive. on the contrary, he usually communicates a bit too much for my taste. he might save some time and energy away from forums.
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