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Old 28 July 2015, 12:35   #1
rabindranath72
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MINIX HDF image trouble with SCSI and XT drives.

As the topic said.
I am using the A590 ROMs (v.7), I have created a 21Mb HDF file, and used RDB and then set the manual geometry option to reproduce the format of a WD93028 hard disk (782 cylinders, 2 heads, 27 sectors). This hard disk is pre-configured in the A2091 install disk, and I choose the WD93028 configuration. At reboot the drive is apparently recognised (DH0:NDOS) but then when I try to format it, I get the "not a dos disk" alert at the end.
A similar thing happens when using KS 2.04 and 2.04 Install disk.
So...how the heck is this supposed to work? Does anyone have an hdf image that works with XT protocol pre-configured?
I ask because I am trying to install Minix; the SCSI protocol doesn't seem to work for some reason, so I want to try the XT interface.

Thanks in advance,
Antonio

Last edited by rabindranath72; 06 May 2016 at 11:18.
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Old 28 July 2015, 14:24   #2
Toni Wilen
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Does http://www.winuae.net/files/b/winuae.7z work better? "Automatic" geometry fixing that WinUAE tried to do seems to be bad idea, it seems driver is mostly hardwired to 20M and can't really handle other sizes very well.

Make sure HD type is "SASI CHS".
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Old 28 July 2015, 14:40   #3
rabindranath72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
Does http://www.winuae.net/files/b/winuae.7z work better? "Automatic" geometry fixing that WinUAE tried to do seems to be bad idea, it seems driver is mostly hardwired to 20M and can't really handle other sizes very well.

Make sure HD type is "SASI CHS".
Thanks!
How do I select SASI CHS?
I can see a SASI controllers in the EXPANSIONS/EXPANSION BOARD SETTING drop menu, but no CHS option.
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Old 28 July 2015, 14:42   #4
Toni Wilen
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It is in HDF configuration panel (near manual geometry values). It is drive parameter, not expansion board parameter.
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Old 28 July 2015, 14:57   #5
rabindranath72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
It is in HDF configuration panel (near manual geometry values). It is drive parameter, not expansion board parameter.
The option activates with both the A590 ROMs configured, and with A3000. Which one should I try? Do they work the same?
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Old 28 July 2015, 15:16   #6
Toni Wilen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabindranath72 View Post
The option activates with both the A590 ROMs configured, and with A3000. Which one should I try? Do they work the same?
Impossible options will be removed dynamically later but: Use SCSI option if drive is connected to SCSI controller, "SASI CHS" when HD is connected to A590 XT connector. It is also used with some old controllers that use MFM or RLL drives or similar.
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Old 28 July 2015, 15:36   #7
rabindranath72
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So, first attempt with the following default configuration:

-A500, 1.3 ROM, 512chip+512slow
-booting off the A2091 install disk
-expansion board set at SCSI, A590/A2091, v7 ROMs
-20MB image file, HD Controller A590/A2091, RDB mode, XT, SASI CHS (no manual geometry set)

The emulation doesn't even start; the screen remains blank (CPU indicator oscillating between 70-85%)
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Old 28 July 2015, 15:46   #8
rabindranath72
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Second attempt with the following default configuration:

-A500, 1.3 ROM, 512chip+512slow
-booting off the A2091 install disk
-expansion board set at SCSI, A590/A2091, v7 ROMs
-20MB image file, HD Controller A590/A2091, RDB mode, XT, SASI CHS (manual geometry set to CHS 782/2/27)

same as above.
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Old 28 July 2015, 15:48   #9
rabindranath72
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Third attempt with the following default configuration:

-A3000, 2.04 ROM, 2MB+8Mb
-booting off WB 2.1 Install disk
-40MB image file, A3000 controller, SCSI-2, RDB enabled.

Hard disk gets correctly formatted and configured by AmigaDOS, but it doesn't handle MINIX filesystem creation.


So...yeah epic fail

Have you tried yourself Toni? I might well be missing something, although will all the attempts I have made I think I have exhausted all the possible combinations of settings.

Thanks for the new version anyway.
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Old 28 July 2015, 15:50   #10
mark_k
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabindranath72 View Post
I have created a 21Mb HDF file, and used RDB and then set the manual geometry option to reproduce the format of a WD93028 hard disk (782 cylinders, 2 heads, 27 sectors). This hard disk is pre-configured in the A2091 install disk, and I choose the WD93028 configuration. At reboot the drive is apparently recognised (DH0:NDOS) but then when I try to format it, I get the "not a dos disk" alert at the end.
What is the exact length in bytes of the HDF you're using?

782󫎾7512 = 21,620,736

So your HDF needs to be at least that many bytes long.
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Old 28 July 2015, 16:00   #11
rabindranath72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_k View Post
What is the exact length in bytes of the HDF you're using?

782󫎾7512 = 21,620,736

So your HDF needs to be at least that many bytes long.
Yeah as I wrote it's 21Mb (the drive is classified as 20Mb in its docs however), the structure results actually in roughly 20.6 MB as you note, so the image is 21Mb.

http://www.lo-tech.co.uk/wiki/Wester..._Install_Guide
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Old 28 July 2015, 16:09   #12
Toni Wilen
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Redownload winuae.7z, there was some DMA handling bugs when I rewritten XT drive support to use generic "SASI CHS" emulation. Attach winuaelog.txt if it still does not work.

You can have extra large HDF, it does not matter in this case (there is no way for driver to query size of drive when using those old drives) but it must not be even single byte too small.
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Old 28 July 2015, 16:59   #13
rabindranath72
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So I tried the new version with the A500 configuration above, I get a similar behaviour as before.
Looking at the monitor window, my CHS manual settings are ignored, I always get 612/4/17.
The drive is recognised by the 2091 Install HD Toolbox program, but then I don't even get an option to format after reset (previously I at least got the DH0:NDOS icon).
What's more, when I tried to save the log, WinUAE crashed before saving the session.

I'll try again later.
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Old 28 July 2015, 17:09   #14
Toni Wilen
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That geometry is "correct", it is what driver tells the drive to use (logically). I copied some files to 20M XT drive and I didn't notice anything interesting happening.
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Old 28 July 2015, 17:12   #15
rabindranath72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
That geometry is "correct", it is what driver tells the drive to use (logically). I copied some files to 20M XT drive and I didn't notice anything interesting happening.
I created a new profile for the "correct" geometry, but then I don't get the option to actually format the drive on a reset. I always need to define a new profile in HD Toolbox, because otherwise to the program, the hard disk configuration is unknown.

Could you share your formatted XT HDF?
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Old 28 July 2015, 17:32   #16
Toni Wilen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabindranath72 View Post
I created a new profile for the "correct" geometry
Don't do it. Previous physical geometry is correct, XT driver for some reason works strangely and uses different logical geometry.

I think the HD problem is guaranteed to be in Minix (at least in this version of Minix).
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Old 28 July 2015, 17:50   #17
rabindranath72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
Don't do it. Previous physical geometry is correct, XT driver for some reason works strangely and uses different logical geometry.

I think the HD problem is guaranteed to be in Minix (at least in this version of Minix).
I am missing something here
At this point MINIX is not the problem; I can't even get to MINIX as I can't get a formatted XT HD image. I would be happy to say that MINIX is the problem if I could get an XT image partition (btw, I tried with two different MINIX boot disks on SCSI, and I get the same results in both cases; this software was tested and released back in the day, and from old newsgroups posts, people have actually used it.)

When I boot from the A2091 setup disk I don't get any icons on workbench. If I try the Format HD program, it tells me that no drive is in the system.
Then if I go to HD Toolbox, the only option I get is to "Change Drive Type".
Which leads me to Define new drive type. If I select it, then I get a screen with the detected geometry (612/4/17), which I name (e.g. UAEXT) Then I Save Changes to Drive. Then I Click on exit, and I get a Guru Meditation. No chance to get a desktop icon at all.
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Old 28 July 2015, 18:07   #18
Toni Wilen
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I thought formatting problem was fixed with newer winuae.exe... (Partitioning didn't work properly with first version, perhaps you got cached version or something?)

Works for me. I booted install disk, hdtoolbox, selected already existing WD93028 (782/27/2 geometry, didn't change it), clicked partition drive, ok, save changes to drive. Boot, formatted normally.

Include -scsilog -scsiemulog winuaelog.txt if it still fails to work.
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Old 28 July 2015, 22:02   #19
rabindranath72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
I thought formatting problem was fixed with newer winuae.exe... (Partitioning didn't work properly with first version, perhaps you got cached version or something?)

Works for me. I booted install disk, hdtoolbox, selected already existing WD93028 (782/27/2 geometry, didn't change it), clicked partition drive, ok, save changes to drive. Boot, formatted normally.

Include -scsilog -scsiemulog winuaelog.txt if it still fails to work.
WinUAE 3 is the first version I have installed on my new laptop, so there can't be any cache.
I am at a loss. How did you prepare the hdf file? manual input of CHS? RDB enable? SASI CHS? What Amiga configuration? Did you use the latest WinUAE beta version?

Herewith a few logs I obtained this afternoon with the beta WinUAE, they all lead to Guru Meditations; and a WinUAE crash. I didn't use the log options; I might try tomorrow.

Would you please, please give me that formatted XT HDF file and/or your WinUAE configuration? I have wasted a week trying to make it work I want to know if I am completely wasting my time and Minix will never run in emulation for me. I am willing to put a donation into the website if you can help me.

Thanks in advance, I appreciate the time you are devoting to this issue.
Attached Files
File Type: zip winuae_debug_beta2_XT_20_guru.zip (17.9 KB, 38 views)
File Type: zip winuae_debug_beta2_XT_20_manualgeometry_guru.zip (25.3 KB, 47 views)
File Type: dmp winuae_3.2.0_b5_2015.07.28_18.01.18.dmp (117.1 KB, 45 views)
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Old 28 July 2015, 22:18   #20
Toni Wilen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabindranath72 View Post
WinUAE 3 is the first version I have installed on my new laptop, so there can't be any cache.
I meant your second winuae.7z download may have come from some web cache. Your log shows same symptoms I also got before the fix. (Strange SERIAL messages and crashes)

Redownload and make sure exe's date stamp inside the 7z archive is newer (and not older than 2 hours from posting date of this message)
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