English Amiga Board


Go Back   English Amiga Board > News

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 06 July 2015, 16:24   #141
Akira
Registered User

Akira's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: New York
Posts: 18,269
Quote:
Originally Posted by Photon View Post
Of course you can. Think.

The only difference from now would be that you get a headphone jack which is amplified so you can actually hear anything, and with no 100% stereo separation to drive you crazy after 5 mins of music work. As I said, musicians would love it
I get what you want to do, you want to have a HEAPHONE plug and that's a different thing. You need a line amp plus a volume control knob, because otherwise it would always be set at TOO DAMN LOUD and damage your ears.

Yes, it'd be perfect to have at demoparties. But only if it's a headphone amp with volume control. If you have gone as far as adding an amp and volume control, you can have a knob that controls how much stereo separation you want.

Connecting your headphones to line output isn't a good idea.
Akira is offline  
AdSense AdSense  
Old 06 July 2015, 17:52   #142
kolla
Registered User
kolla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Trondheim, Norway
Posts: 766
Yeah, I don't see how mixed stereo is beneficial for musicians, I would rather have the option of dedicated output for each channel - quadrophonia I have a cheap mixer that I use with my computers, and for amiga I use two mono channels, and mix them left and right as I wish. Any musician has mixers much better than mine.
kolla is offline  
Old 06 July 2015, 18:13   #143
pandy71
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: PL
Posts: 1,546
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexh View Post
I think that just confirms that Clone-A AGA either doesn't exist or (like the open source implementations) is full of bugs due to lack of documentation.
Well... i had impression that A-Clone/Clone-A is ECS implementation and AGA can be added as not big issue (natural extension for ECS features). Side to this other product (Indivision ECS/AGA FF) seem to show that this is working solution...
This made all so weird...
pandy71 is offline  
Old 06 July 2015, 18:19   #144
pandy71
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: PL
Posts: 1,546
Quote:
Originally Posted by kolla View Post
Yeah, I don't see how mixed stereo is beneficial for musicians
PANORAMA in software - this is obvious - you can control position of source within music editor not externally.
pandy71 is offline  
Old 06 July 2015, 18:25   #145
kolla
Registered User
kolla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Trondheim, Norway
Posts: 766
Yeah, well, but I would rather do that on something else than the Amiga.
kolla is offline  
Old 06 July 2015, 20:17   #146
Akira
Registered User

Akira's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: New York
Posts: 18,269
Quote:
Originally Posted by kolla View Post
Yeah, well, but I would rather do that on something else than the Amiga.
Agreed, is exactly what I meant. Us musicians tend to prefer separated outputs for many reasons. Not only you can control stereo separation with an outboard mixer, you can also effect each channel separately (maybe I want to add delay to a channel and not the other one).
Akira is offline  
Old 06 July 2015, 22:47   #147
Photon
Moderator
Photon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Hult / Sweden
Posts: 4,452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akira View Post
I get what you want to do, you want to have a HEAPHONE plug and that's a different thing. You need a line amp plus a volume control knob, because otherwise it would always be set at TOO DAMN LOUD and damage your ears.

Yes, it'd be perfect to have at demoparties. But only if it's a headphone amp with volume control. If you have gone as far as adding an amp and volume control, you can have a knob that controls how much stereo separation you want.

Connecting your headphones to line output isn't a good idea.
Not only for demoparties, but to make music after 10PM at home as well.

And yes, headphone amps is the external equipment that is a drag to get. They are sold in no stores anywhere and I don't understand it. They should have made it into consumerland long ago, at least I've seen them requested often enough

Oh, there are lots of them, none of them simply "sound too weak. amplify. sound extremely much more separated than in my stereo. mix.", and in all kinds of states of confusion.

They're usually battery-operated and in some big clump form factor you have bring with you, and I don't even think there's an option for reducing the stereo separation in 99.9% of them.



Extremely few will require 4-channel output, and if they do they will prefer an external line-in mixer with lots of possibilities.

Lots of equipment have the standard L and R white and red RCA outputs. Unlike the other equipment, the audio doesn't come pre-mixed but is harshly separated 100%. With a chip and few resistors, this could be fixed more cheaply and solve the original hardware design problem.

It would instantly make all games and demos sound better, without everyone rushing out to get the extra equipment to do it.

Last edited by Photon; 06 July 2015 at 22:56.
Photon is offline  
Old 07 July 2015, 01:05   #148
Akira
Registered User

Akira's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: New York
Posts: 18,269
Yeah but where will you put the sound volume knob and stuff? That is what I am getting at here. It sounds too much for the motherboard.
If there was a way to add a headphone amp with volume control that doesn't need case modifications, I'm all in for it! A headphone amp WITHOUT volume control is USELESS because it will be TOO LOUD and ruin your hearing.

I actually bought a FIOS headphone amp and it worked well but I didn't do a proper volume circuit. I have used it at Datastorm a couple of years ago.

If you wanna make music at home after 10PM and want to use headphones, as said before, get a small sound mixer. Something cheap but good from Mackie like the MIX8 or MIX5 will sort you out. Connect the Amiga outputs each to a mono channel, and pan (or not) as you please, and use headphones. That's what us musicians have, an outboard mixer, and it doens't cost an arm and a leg to get.

As I said, IF there was a way to include headphone amplification with volume control in the motherboard in a way that doesn't affect the case design, I'm game.
Akira is offline  
Old 07 July 2015, 01:12   #149
dJOS
Registered User

dJOS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 856
Tbh unless this Amiga reloaded board takes the approach of the original Phoenix 1000 replacement board and brings significant upgrades I won't be buying one.
dJOS is offline  
Old 07 July 2015, 14:47   #150
Daedalus
Registered User

Daedalus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Dublin, then Glasgow
Posts: 2,322
Anyway, what are you going to be making music with before 10pm? Surely whatever speakers/amplifier/TV you're using for your sound has a headphones output on it? That's where you want to be plugging in your headphones, not adding extra parts to a motherboard to convert line-level audio to headphones output that most people don't want. I know everyone's different, but I've never wanted to plug headphones into any computer or console since I've always used a proper amp for sound output.

At the end of the day, adding all these extra, cheap parts that everyone's asking for will all add up and make the board far more expensive for the end user. It's not just the cost of parts - there's extra assembly, design time, simulation and testing involved, all of which adds to the final price.
Daedalus is offline  
Old 07 July 2015, 14:52   #151
dJOS
Registered User

dJOS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 856
New Amiga motherboards from Jens

The board would be better value if it didn't come with key parts missing. E.g. Color video via RGB or svideo or even better HDMI.

I don't mind the CPU approach, that is sensible.
dJOS is offline  
Old 07 July 2015, 14:52   #152
Mrs Beanbag
Glastonbridge Software
Mrs Beanbag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Edinburgh/Scotland
Posts: 2,202
indeed... let's not unnecessarily overcomplicate an already daunting project. A 3.5mm jack instead of phono output is a perfectly reasonable change, though.
Mrs Beanbag is offline  
Old 07 July 2015, 14:53   #153
dJOS
Registered User

dJOS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 856
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs Beanbag View Post
indeed... let's not unnecessarily overcomplicate an already daunting project. A 3.5mm jack instead of phono output is a perfectly reasonable change, though.

Agreed, nothing wrong with that either.
dJOS is offline  
Old 07 July 2015, 15:05   #154
demolition
Unregistered User
demolition's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Copenhagen / DK
Age: 37
Posts: 3,378
Headphone output is not required, however a stereo mix adjustment would be quite useful, not only for headphones but also for speakers.
demolition is offline  
Old 07 July 2015, 16:02   #155
Photon
Moderator
Photon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Hult / Sweden
Posts: 4,452
Well, it's in WinUAE for a reason, and it could be in an Amiga for a reason. The reason being the original output is hard panned L and R and it's been a bad thing for 3 decades. It was just an idea to put the annoyance straight in a real new Amiga model. But never mind. I'll just ask Jens, he'll say no, and I'll build it myself. Beats dragging a half Amiga size mixer+PSU just to get usable headphone output.
Photon is offline  
Old 07 July 2015, 16:11   #156
Akira
Registered User

Akira's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: New York
Posts: 18,269
I'm a lot more worried about a shitty black and white composite output instead of SVideo. That really needs to go. Jens, pwetty puleeeez!
Akira is offline  
Old 07 July 2015, 16:15   #157
Mrs Beanbag
Glastonbridge Software
Mrs Beanbag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Edinburgh/Scotland
Posts: 2,202
Quote:
Originally Posted by Photon View Post
Well, it's in WinUAE for a reason, and it could be in an Amiga for a reason.
it's trivial to implement in an emulator.

Quote:
The reason being the original output is hard panned L and R and it's been a bad thing for 3 decades. It was just an idea to put the annoyance straight in a real new Amiga model. But never mind. I'll just ask Jens, he'll say no, and I'll build it myself. Beats dragging a half Amiga size mixer+PSU just to get usable headphone output.
Putting it "right" right would be modifying Paula so you could set independent Left and Right volume levels for each channel in software (in a backwards compatible way).

But for now, i already posted the 2.79 solution:
http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/35mm-stere...-adapter-fk15r
Mrs Beanbag is offline  
Old 07 July 2015, 19:28   #158
Retro1234
5150

Retro1234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Sycophantazia
Posts: 3,775
ATX motherboard would be cool
what about a cpu slot would that be possible?
anyway Good luck Jens
Retro1234 is offline  
Old 07 July 2015, 19:44   #159
Mrs Beanbag
Glastonbridge Software
Mrs Beanbag's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Edinburgh/Scotland
Posts: 2,202
motherboard with height of ATX and width of Flex ATX should fit inside A1200 case easily. only problem is the rear panel.

maybe A600? can't find dimensions for an A600 motherboard
Mrs Beanbag is offline  
Old 07 July 2015, 21:55   #160
Photon
Moderator
Photon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Hult / Sweden
Posts: 4,452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs Beanbag View Post
it's trivial to implement in an emulator.


Putting it "right" right would be modifying Paula so you could set independent Left and Right volume levels for each channel in software (in a backwards compatible way).

But for now, i already posted the 2.79 solution:
http://www.maplin.co.uk/p/35mm-stere...-adapter-fk15r
Yes, I saw that and ignored it as troll bait, since it doesn't help anyone. Curious.

And yeah, just add some volume registers plus the missing mixing capability to a custom chip register that nobody has been able to clone in 30 years. How hard can it be!?

Again, not the most helpful suggestion.
Photon is offline  
AdSense AdSense  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 2 (1 members and 1 guests)
TheBoss
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wanted: Amiga 600 motherboards majsta MarketPlace 6 06 September 2012 20:20
Jens Schoenfeld : XSurf2 Diagnostics help ancalimon support.Hardware 1 30 November 2011 18:46
Update on Jens FlickerFixer for A1200? mfletcher support.Hardware 25 11 July 2008 00:08
Met Jens Schoenfeld :) blade002 Amiga scene 7 10 July 2007 02:31
New from Jens Schoenfeld Methanoid News 20 01 July 2005 21:48

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 10:03.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Page generated in 0.20412 seconds with 12 queries