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Old 17 October 2015, 15:27   #401
Schoenfeld
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eXeler0 View Post
Will the success or failure of the current A1200 case kickstarter have an effect on those of you who are considering a "reloaded" mobo?
Not at all. Phillipe has made severe mistakes in planning his project, and refused to accept suggestions made by me - suggestions that would have saved him a good 40.000,- EUR. In addition to that, he failed to plan all the infrastructure that's required to actually process over 600 orders of fairly large parcels. I truly wish him the best, and that is "not reaching the financing goal". If that project reaches the financing goal, Phillipe will crack under the pressure of things that he did not plan. Just positioning yourself in front of a big machine and making the cases does not get the product safely and in time to the customer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eXeler0 View Post
Or are most of you fine with slaughtering your current machines and put the mobo in it?
No need to. There is a much better A1200 case project in the works, and it's been in the works for much longer than Phillipe is trying to collect money. As a result, that other project is much more elaborate, and it requires a lot less money. Even if that new case is not 100% identical to the A1200 case, it carries a lot more Amiga spirit, as it is delivering more flexibility at a lower price.

I learned about that project last saturday at the Amiga30-show in Neuss, Germany, and I've had a "Blues Brothers moment": I have seen the light ;-) It's the right ideas put into the right order. I fully support that other project, and once it goes into it's financing phase (also through Kickstarter), you will also see an official connection to the Amiga Reloaded board. I cannot share any more information about this case, as I have promised to keep details confidential.

Jens
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Old 17 October 2015, 17:06   #402
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Oh for crying out loud... Jens, the question was not for you. Of course there are cheaper ways to make cases, but that was never the point of the current kickstarter. You know, many did not support the first kickstarter simply because the word "AMIGA" was not on the case, many people wanted a pretty exact replica of the A1200 case. So there will be a cheaper, different than original casing, but somehow more "in spirit" option later on, well good luck with that. I presume "Amiga spirit" in this case (badom-tish) means it will have its share of flaws and problems.

Go make an A1000 replica, with a proper Amiga keyboard, and I may be interested.
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Old 17 October 2015, 21:15   #403
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@Jens

Sounds good. I was looking at the Amiga Case kickstarter, and the cases looks quite nice.
But Ive been holding off since I towerized my current A1200.

Regarding Amiga Reloaded board, will we be able to connect an Apollo Accelerator to it?

Either way, Im defintly getting one of the Amiga Reloaded boards so I have a spare if/when my original A1200 dies.
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Old 17 October 2015, 23:25   #404
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Will my blizzard accelerator work with this new motherboard?
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Old 18 October 2015, 03:12   #405
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@trixter I think it says so on the Amiga Reloaded wiki, that they will try to support the majority of Blizzard cards.. Certainly the popular ones.

@Overflow ... Knowing Jens's feelings towards Apollo cards, it will probably explode if connected to a Reloaded mobo :-) (disclaimer: Im kidding, but Apollo compatibility it unlikely to be a priority)
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Old 19 October 2015, 11:35   #406
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kolla View Post
Oh for crying out loud... Jens, the question was not for you.
This thread is about my products. eXeler0's question has made a connection between my name and Phil's Kickstarter project. I felt the need to make clear that I do not want this connection to be made.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Overflow View Post
Regarding Amiga Reloaded board, will we be able to connect an Apollo Accelerator to it?
You can certainly connect one, and it may even work (to the degree that an Apollo card can be regarded as "working"), but I won't support it. If you choose to build an Amiga with that combination of motherboard+CPU card, you're on your own.

Quote:
Originally Posted by trixster View Post
Will my blizzard accelerator work with this new motherboard?
Same here: I'll make timing of the Amiga Reloaded as compatible as possible, but please don't expect product support. The actual meaning of this condition can be seen on the ACA500: Blizzard cards work for many people, and I have even answered a few e-Mails, but if you don't get it to work, don't blame me. If you want product support my means of "I want someone to make things work", please go for a recommended CPU card. It may even happen that I'll put a Blizzard card on the "recommended" list, but at this point, I will only promise that it'll work with the ACA1232, ACA1233, ACA1220 and ACA1221.

Jens
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Old 19 October 2015, 13:21   #407
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First i'd like to apologize for answering directly without being "invited" in this thread.

An Amiga user pointed me over here, and i've just read Jens statements which i think needed to be answered.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Schoenfeld View Post
Not at all. Phillipe has made severe mistakes in planning his project, and refused to accept suggestions made by me - suggestions that would have saved him a good 40.000,- EUR. In addition to that, he failed to plan all the infrastructure that's required to actually process over 600 orders of fairly large parcels. I truly wish him the best, and that is "not reaching the financing goal". If that project reaches the financing goal, Phillipe will crack under the pressure of things that he did not plan. Just positioning yourself in front of a big machine and making the cases does not get the product safely and in time to the customer.
- We did not made any "mistakes", simply because Jens does not have any insights on the project processes we're following.

- I, and no one in the team, had received ANY suggestions by Jens.
We did not ask for any of his help. Therefore we did not refused anything.
Without knowing all details of the project, Jens simply can't throw numbers like "have saved him a good 40.000 EUR". Why €40K only ? Why not €80K ?

- We did not "failed all the infrastructure that's required to actually process over 600 orders", simply because that was the first process we've secured !
I have experience in importing and distributing goods for 20+ years, as well as working with several manufacturers in asia. I really know my way here

-"not reaching the financing goal" is for Jens a bigger market for the product he's supporting. That's all.

-"If that project reaches the financing goal, Phillipe will crack under the pressure of things that he did not plan"
My goodness, where did you get all of that shit from?
All and every steps are in place already, and shipping processes as well.
Because you're so concerned about the P&P, you should know that all cases are going to be shipped in an Amiga box. (spoil here)
All pickup & shipments have been seen already.
The only thing i could crack under, would be the weight of all these boxes.

-"Just positioning yourself in front of a big machine and making the cases does not get the product safely and in time to the customer."
Point made. Standing near that kind of machine, starring at it, does not get the things done!
That's why we're not currently standing there anymore.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Schoenfeld
No need to. There is a much better A1200 case project in the works, and it's been in the works for much longer than Phillipe is trying to collect money. As a result, that other project is much more elaborate, and it requires a lot less money. Even if that new case is not 100% identical to the A1200 case, it carries a lot more Amiga spirit, as it is delivering more flexibility at a lower price.

- How come another project can carries "a lot more Amiga spirit" and can be "more elaborate" than an Official Amiga 1200 case made under license ?
License that bounds us to produce perfect replicas with included enhancements.

Of course if you want/need/request "another" type of case, the one you saw (where you're not involved) is perfect, and i'm pretty sure it's a very good project as well.


All of that being said, to be clear:
- Jens does not know any of us, nor me.
- Jens does not have any insights on any of the processes we're following. Therefore he has no details on how this project is carried out, from top to bottom.


I must say that the team is pissed by this kind of assessments, but it goes with it when you do something for the Amiga community i guess.

Of course, our success would mean a smaller audience for any product of that kind IC would like to make/launch/sell.

And this is not of our concern.


Regards.
Phil
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Old 19 October 2015, 14:48   #408
Schoenfeld
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Phil,

you claim I'm wrong, sources claim you're wrong. My sources may be wrong, just using the bio you're publishing on Kickstarter as their only source of information. So how about some extension to that? Name of the shipping company, photos of your box(es), references to successful projects, introduction of your team members. I can't find any of that, but I *may* stand corrected if you provide that. It may even help getting your project across that 125.000,- EUR goal, because all that missing information actually fuels the appearance of a not-so-well-planned one-man show.

About our eMail conversation: I'm aware that you did not ask for help. However, you *did* ask for a partnership. It was even in the subject of the e-mail, which you chose yourself. Let me quote the last paragraph of my eMail answer to you, dated august 24th, 2015, 14:48:

Code:
What I could think of is to lead a new project that is putting more
knowledge into managing this: Both in project coordination and in
consulting more experienced people. I can imagine to lead such
a project, but not to work as a partner under a leadership that
doesn't correct known mistakes.
You chose not to answer this part at all. With the rest of my eMail being mostly a "no", you still chose to use Keyrah V2 for a special edition. No problem here, I'll sell anyone any quantity of Keyrah V2. It still has a funny taste, as you've asked for my OK in your eMail dated august 24th, 2015, 12:42.

Jens
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Old 19 October 2015, 14:59   #409
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Old 19 October 2015, 16:01   #410
amenophis
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My goodness,

"You chose not to answer this part at all. "
- Why should we? This was not what we've asked for!


Regarding our email conversation, this is the content of mine:
> Dear Jens,
> Hope you doing good.
> I don't know if you've received my last email.
>
> We're going to re-launch our KS campaign to manufacture new Amiga 1200
> cases.
> As we've licensed Amiga Inc, our new cases are going to be 100% as
> original case, including the AMIGA logo on top of them.
>
> We're looking to create a Special Edition limited case, which will
> include the Keyrah V2 and a Raspberry Pi2.
>
> So we'd be honored if you'd be ok for us to add Individual Computers on
> the partners section of our coming Kickstarter page, as well as on our
> soon to come updated website.
>
> Of course, all necessary Keyrah V2 for these Special Editions are going
> to be ordered from you directly.


And my answer after yours which was containing your "help" proposal:


Quote:
Hello,

Thank you for taking time over your busy schedule to answer us.
Your address database is certainly much larger than mine indeed for things related to the Amiga market & people.

When mistakes arise course of action is either moving off or learning from them. I like to say i'm from the latter.
By contacting you we were certainly not asking for anything free.

Reading your words carefully, i don't think you'll have any time to invest in that regarding your schedule as you clearly stated.

Whatever solution we come with, even if it's not the perfect one you'd come with with your contacts, we'll propose it to the community.

I thank you very much for your kind answer,

Best regards,

You can note that my email response was politely telling you this is not what we've asked for. And should we met any issue we'll fix it.
The partnership here was solely to add you LOGO as the cases are compatible with Keyrah. Nothing fancy here.

What did you expect ?

So from a simple email containing nothing, you made all these funny stories


Over here.
I can't wait to meet you though.

I'm sure we'll find a way to understand ourselves, i'm actually pretty sure of that.

Over.
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Old 19 October 2015, 16:53   #411
trixster
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schoenfeld View Post
Same here: I'll make timing of the Amiga Reloaded as compatible as possible, but please don't expect product support. The actual meaning of this condition can be seen on the ACA500: Blizzard cards work for many people, and I have even answered a few e-Mails, but if you don't get it to work, don't blame me. If you want product support my means of "I want someone to make things work", please go for a recommended CPU card. It may even happen that I'll put a Blizzard card on the "recommended" list, but at this point, I will only promise that it'll work with the ACA1232, ACA1233, ACA1220 and ACA1221.

Jens
Jens, thanks for the carification, that seems entirely reasonable to me.
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Old 19 October 2015, 17:23   #412
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A scumbag move at this stage of their Kickstarter, Jens... EDIT2: answered by Jens in post 415. I'll leave it at that and move on - I just wish Philippe well with the project.

Chris

Last edited by clebin; 19 October 2015 at 23:27.
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Old 19 October 2015, 17:24   #413
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Wow, what a day / thread to return to after a few years away! Tasty!
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Old 19 October 2015, 20:35   #414
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Ah we are throwing dirt at each other once again, are we? So it has to be Amiga...
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Old 19 October 2015, 21:25   #415
Schoenfeld
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Trying to get back to facts: If you want "an original case", Phil's project will be better. For the other project, I was allowed to post pictures and info here: http://www.a1k.org/forum/showpost.ph...postcount=1393

I hope that this will go online soon. I really didn't mean to throw dirt, and I apologize if asking for information makes Phil look bad. Yes, I may have had more time, but I have successfully ignored Phil's project until I learned about the "Amiga Case" project last saturday. I will not question any info Phil may be posting - as I wrote, he has a chance to use that bio info as the last boost to bring his project across the 125000,- EUR mark. My personal goal is to be positive about the "Amiga Case" project, but not to be negative about Phil's project.

Jens
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Old 19 October 2015, 22:21   #416
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Well well, this escalated quickly...

The original question was... will the A1200 case have any impact on the Amiga Reloaded project? As someone who supports the A1200 case kickstarter, but who is extremely reluctant in regards to the Reloaded, I doubt it. I think actually it will rather have an impact on KeyRah V2 sales.
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Old 19 October 2015, 23:09   #417
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schoenfeld View Post
This thread is about my products. eXeler0's question has made a connection between my name and Phil's Kickstarter project. I felt the need to make clear that I do not want this connection to be made.


You can certainly connect one, and it may even work (to the degree that an Apollo card can be regarded as "working"), but I won't support it. If you choose to build an Amiga with that combination of motherboard+CPU card, you're on your own.


Same here: I'll make timing of the Amiga Reloaded as compatible as possible, but please don't expect product support. The actual meaning of this condition can be seen on the ACA500: Blizzard cards work for many people, and I have even answered a few e-Mails, but if you don't get it to work, don't blame me. If you want product support my means of "I want someone to make things work", please go for a recommended CPU card. It may even happen that I'll put a Blizzard card on the "recommended" list, but at this point, I will only promise that it'll work with the ACA1232, ACA1233, ACA1220 and ACA1221.

Jens

What about the ACA 1231/42 ?????
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Old 19 October 2015, 23:21   #418
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schoenfeld View Post
Trying to get back to facts: If you want "an original case", Phil's project will be better. For the other project, I was allowed to post pictures and info here: http://www.a1k.org/forum/showpost.ph...postcount=1393
i really like the pictures but could you upload it somewhere for everybody to view. not everybody here is a member on a1k.

few questions arise:
- what is the slight difference in size you mentioned, i cant recognize it exactly▀
- how comes the production is cheaper, in genenral therms, without disclosing trade secrets?
and an remark, i need to look closer, like the flexible design of the back, but i would not mention the projecon the outside of the bottom. i doestnt look decent imho, maybe its a question of a preoper logo. just i think its too present and a bit clumsy like that.
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Old 20 October 2015, 01:58   #419
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schoenfeld View Post
Trying to get back to facts: If you want "an original case", Phil's project will be better. For the other project, I was allowed to post pictures and info here: http://www.a1k.org/forum/showpost.ph...postcount=1393

I hope that this will go online soon. I really didn't mean to throw dirt, and I apologize if asking for information makes Phil look bad.
My, this is just embarrassing.

You mention facts but you are the one who quoted the conclusions of your sources in public here without any backing information.
You brought these accusations forward and that puts the onus of proof on you, not on Philippe.

If you do not have anything to back these claims you certainly are not in a position to talk about him "looking bad" because you asked for information. If there is no concrete reason for your suspicion then the proper behaviour is to stay silent not to ask the other party to prove that they aren't guilty.

I am a deep believer of two principles:
- Always give the benefit of the doubt.
- Never assume malice when something can be explained by incompetence (read: mistake).
and for good reasons because I make mistakes every day myself so it would be quite hypocritical of me to think you are acting in bad faith.

Hence, I am utterly convinced that the only thing you are guilty of is to have been a bit too enthusiastic to believe what your (obviously partial) sources said without asking them for solid evidence. That happens.

But I hope you can understand that Philippe owes you nothing and that expecting otherwise is neither proper nor professional.

This said, this will not prevent me from buying the new ACA500 when it ships, as I said, everyone makes mistakes.
Kind regards.
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Old 20 October 2015, 09:49   #420
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This might jeopardize Phillippe's Kickstarter project.

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