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Old 03 September 2015, 13:23   #361
rikbliz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs Beanbag View Post
The part of the A1200 motherboard that doesn't fit in an A600 case only contains the joystick and mouse ports, and one or two resistors. I honestly have no idea why they didn't make it compatible with an A600 case in the first place
And the Zorro expansion card area, and the numpad on the keyboard...
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Old 03 September 2015, 14:04   #362
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Originally Posted by rikbliz View Post
And the Zorro expansion card area, and the numpad on the keyboard...
Well, the numpad can just be omitted like the A600 does, it'd have worked anyway as long as they were just omitting the pins needed for the numpad.

Huh, are you referring to the CPU/RAM expansion slot?

Yeah, I suppose that could've made things a bit more difficult for Commodore to squeeze everything in, but it's not like they didn't waste space while designing the A1200 MB (case in example, the FPU area)

Jens can do it! \o/
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Old 03 September 2015, 17:02   #363
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And the Zorro expansion card area, and the numpad on the keyboard...
^ this. If CBM had made an A600 sized A1200, I can imagine how limited we would have been in those regards. Also, I used the keypad vigorously for a lot of RPG games (like EOB I/II), I wouldn't have wanted one without it. But hey ok, we all have different needs, so I see how some can do without it.
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Old 03 September 2015, 19:36   #364
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Originally Posted by rikbliz View Post
And the Zorro expansion card area, and the numpad on the keyboard...
the numpad on the keyboard isn't on the motherboard...

granted you won't be able to fit most expansion cards in, but they're not compulsory, if you want them, use an A1200 case, then.
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Old 04 September 2015, 15:26   #365
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Maybe you could have some sort of U-shaped connector, that would put the card above the motherboard.
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Old 04 September 2015, 18:17   #366
Mrs Beanbag
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Maybe you could have some sort of U-shaped connector, that would put the card above the motherboard.
that is how the person who cut up an A1200 into an A600 case managed it. It looked pretty busy inside of there by the end of it.

anyway, with more modern parts it may be possible to make more low-profile cards, like the ACA1221 which Jens assures us would fit. But if, back in the day, A600 and A1200 could have had a common interface they could have at least shared RAM expansions, which would have helped prices and availability.
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Old 04 September 2015, 18:33   #367
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Originally Posted by Mrs Beanbag View Post
that is how the person who cut up an A1200 into an A600 case managed it. It looked pretty busy inside of there by the end of it.
But that is with the limitation of the current motherboard design. Jens is redesigning the whole thing so nothing stops him from relocating the expansion bus to another area where you can, with an U type connector, layer an expansion card on top, that can stay in place helped by some sort of holder that will keep it from touching the board before (3D printed?)

That's the beauty of making a new motherboard, you pretty much can do whatever you want.
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Old 07 September 2015, 09:59   #368
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I was reading the Wiki and came across this:

Flickerfixer output board
Another alternative is the special version of Indivision AGA MK2, which can be installed as the second alternative: This will give you a VGA and an HDMI output for the Amiga Reloaded. The price of this option will be lower than the price of the Indivision AGA MK2 product for the A1200, as this one does not have to deal with the space constraints of the original Commodore board.

Will it output 50hz via HDMI for a perfect scrolling output?
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Old 07 September 2015, 16:54   #369
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if, back in the day, A600 and A1200 could have had a common interface they could have at least shared RAM expansions, which would have helped prices and availability.
I disagree.

The A1200 and A600 couldn't have had a compatible trapdoor slot because one is a 16-bit RAM expansion and the other is a 32-bit CPU expansion.

Had they tried, it would have increased prices of both the A600 itself AND A600 RAM cards.
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Old 07 September 2015, 17:27   #370
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ok fair point, you could get trapdoor RAM expansions for the A1200 though that were not CPU cards, i'll be honest i don't know the technical challenges of allowing 32 bit cards to work on a 16 bit bus and vice versa.
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Old 07 September 2015, 17:50   #371
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The A1200 and A600 couldn't have had a compatible trapdoor slot because one is a 16-bit RAM expansion and the other is a 32-bit CPU expansion.
They could probably have shared if the 600 was 020 based and the 1200 was 030 based like many people argue that they should have been.
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Old 08 September 2015, 14:56   #372
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They could probably have shared if the 600 was 020 based and the 1200 was 030 based like many people argue that they should have been.
In theory they could probably have done a universal connector that uses different pins on each of the two cards but if we are discussing "what if" here... well.. lets remember *why* the A600 exists at all. It was supposed to be the new "c64 / affordable / low end / toy" while the a1200 was the natural step up from the A500. From that perspective, they had little reason to waste R&D on the above mentioned solution. ;-)
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Old 09 September 2015, 13:58   #373
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except they did waste R&D on it... granted some of the R&D was already shared with the A1200 (PCMCIA/IDE)... they were mostly waiting on the AGA chipset and the 68020 was already pretty old by that time, i'm just thinking a little extra R&D could have saved a lot more on manufacturing and increased sales. Or even saved on other R&D elsewhere, since they were already doing it anyway.
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Old 09 September 2015, 18:08   #374
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Is it confirmed that Amiga Reloaded will fit inside an A1200 case?
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Old 09 September 2015, 18:16   #375
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Is it confirmed that Amiga Reloaded will fit inside an A1200 case?
It would be a bit silly if it didn't!
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Old 09 September 2015, 19:05   #376
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From Amiga Reloaded Wiki:

"We therefore mainly aim at the A500 case. A second target will be the A1200 case: We'll do everything that's possible to make one single design fit both these very popular cases."

So, it will fit A500 case, for sure. A1200 case, maybe.
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Old 09 September 2015, 20:15   #377
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^ Oh, I got that covered a while ago

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I imagine they will be 3mm wider, with integrated secret cameras just so Jens could watch us struggle
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Old 14 September 2015, 23:17   #378
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Ok, I'm not a coder so, about that Chip RAM speed.. What are the practical implications of "hard coded" software vs system friendly software. I expect 8 bit WB mode to be faster.. But will old games really "see" any difference? What impact will it have on C2P routines if the new chip mem is faster than "Fast" RAM used? (umm.. time to rename FastRAM?)
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Old 15 September 2015, 20:47   #379
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Not sure where I was going with this, but I have the fastest Chip Ram fitted to my A1200 motherboard 60ns, its also fitted with a 25Mhz 020 & FPU in a socket. The only thing I tried is a little overclocking, but did not get very far.
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Old 15 September 2015, 20:55   #380
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The faster chipram speed is not measured in nanoseconds. It's measured in "timeslots per raster line": There are twice as many of those time slots on the Amiga Reloaded, which is the reason for the higher performance.

FastRAM will always be faster, as it's tied more closely to the CPU, and it doesn't have to wait for a full timeslot. On Fastmem with no other than the CPU being the bus master, an access can be started any time. Chipram on the other side requires time scheduling: Even if the CPU starts an access within a free time slot, the scheduler may not start the access, because there's the next access from a DMA channel scheduled before the CPU access can be finished/closed.

C2P routines will benefit. Old games either won't see a difference, or they will show funny (=unwanted) effects, which is why you can configure these additional time slots as "available or not" before you start such an old program (useful for WHDload games - no re-boot required).

Jens
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