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Old 14 July 2015, 16:51   #241
Akira
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"Nah you don't want a 020, stick a 030 in there."

"030! Are you mad? 040's what you need"

"040! Do us a favour, what's wrong with you? 060 or nothing matey"

"But, 020 is O.K for me, I can't afford anything else"
.
But, but... PPC!

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Old 14 July 2015, 23:05   #242
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New Amiga motherboards from Jens

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Here we go round the mulberry bush.



"Nah you don't want a 020, stick a 030 in there."



"030! Are you mad? 040's what you need"



"040! Do us a favour, what's wrong with you? 060 or nothing matey"



"But, 020 is O.K for me, I can't afford anything else"



And around the bush we go again.

I don't think CPU choice is the issue here as you can have whatever you want from the current design.

It's more that many of us think Amiga reloaded should take the platform forward, not just replicate what we already have.
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Old 15 July 2015, 00:05   #243
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I don't think CPU choice is the issue here as you can have whatever you want from the current design.

It's more that many of us think Amiga reloaded should take the platform forward, not just replicate what we already have.
This is what Natami was supposed to do and see how that turned out. Who knows, maybe it will see the light of day someday, but for now, this seems like a really awesome product and a happy medium between keeping the old stuff going and moving the platform forward.
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Old 15 July 2015, 07:24   #244
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Re: pricing, I think with this kind of thing it is never going to be particularly cheap. If someone is on a tight budget they'd like use a standard machine with 8mb expansion and a scart cable.

As far as reloaded goes this is something that has not happened in 20 years, it is up to Jens how to price it and balance price with demand. It is never going to be cheap to design/manufacture sell something in a very niche market no matter how cheap the components are. I'm just thankful someone is doing it because it may have never happened.
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Old 15 July 2015, 10:06   #245
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It's more that many of us think Amiga reloaded should take the platform forward, not just replicate what we already have.
Little steps, my friends - Amiga Reloaded first, then maybe Amiga Reloaded Plus in the future with small improvements.

If Amiga Reloaded sells, then other money can be invested by Jens into this kind of of things and we can finally some of the suggestions in this thread built-in in a future release (nope, no PPC! ).

Jens is no stranger to crazy projects (Clone-A?) and they just take too much time... and we don't want another Natami, do we?
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Old 15 July 2015, 11:41   #246
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I don't think CPU choice is the issue here as you can have whatever you want from the current design.

It's more that many of us think Amiga reloaded should take the platform forward, not just replicate what we already have.
well as much as i'd like to see something that takes the platform forward, there wouldn't be much point in using up the old stock of AGA chip sets in that case. It would have to be designed and made from scratch. so it puzzles me that anyone is really so surprised about the direction it is taking.

Besides, we already had the GBA1000 for those who want a new ECS system, and i don't see people complaining about that. ok well i haven't looked.
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Old 15 July 2015, 13:44   #247
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well as much as i'd like to see something that takes the platform forward, there wouldn't be much point in using up the old stock of AGA chip sets in that case. It would have to be designed and made from scratch. so it puzzles me that anyone is really so surprised about the direction it is taking.

Besides, we already had the GBA1000 for those who want a new ECS system, and i don't see people complaining about that. ok well i haven't looked.
Could you use the AGA chips for legacy modes and put an RTG in FPGA or a SOC for everything else?
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Old 15 July 2015, 15:43   #248
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Why is there a NEED to "push the platform forward"? This is what I don't understand. Does everyone who likes the Amiga REALLY want to replace their Mac/PC with an Amiga or something? (which you can actually do already with one of those Amiga One boards or whatever).

Otherwise what is the point of "pushing it forward"? Why add functionality to a system that not only runs fine, but it's also largely unexplored and therefore open to much more investigation and research in the software area (if there was any interest)?
I understand the need of connectivity to more largely available and modern peripherals (USB mice, flat screen TVs, modern storage/transfer media), but other than that, what exactly is that people want?
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Old 15 July 2015, 16:12   #249
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Why is there a NEED to "push the platform forward"? This is what I don't understand. Does everyone who likes the Amiga REALLY want to replace their Mac/PC with an Amiga or something? (which you can actually do already with one of those Amiga One boards or whatever).

Otherwise what is the point of "pushing it forward"? Why add functionality to a system that not only runs fine, but it's also largely unexplored and therefore open to much more investigation and research in the software area (if there was any interest)?
I understand the need of connectivity to more largely available and modern peripherals (USB mice, flat screen TVs, modern storage/transfer media), but other than that, what exactly is that people want?
And further than that, the people talking about "pushing the platform forward" usually are only talking about hardware. I've felt that way as well. But what about the software side? AmigaOS, compared to MacOS, Windows or Linux, is inadequate and antiquated on so many levels, while it may have some nice features to it at the same time. Just talking about security alone, it's completely non-existent within AmigaOS. The operating system would also need a total overhaul, pushing THAT part of the platform forward just as much as the hardware's capabilities.
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Old 15 July 2015, 18:03   #250
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And further than that, the people talking about "pushing the platform forward" usually are only talking about hardware. I've felt that way as well. But what about the software side? AmigaOS, compared to MacOS, Windows or Linux, is inadequate and antiquated on so many levels, while it may have some nice features to it at the same time. Just talking about security alone, it's completely non-existent within AmigaOS. The operating system would also need a total overhaul, pushing THAT part of the platform forward just as much as the hardware's capabilities.
Agreed about the software part.
However, writing an OS is a huge undertaking that would require either a dedicated team of devs or some crazy loner in the basement to dedicate his life to that task... but then theres all the, by now, pointless copyright issues and other legal hassle as if the old OS still held some serious commercial value.
What you are asking is something like AROS but that only managed to split the community even further.
The serious development of 68k Amiga OS stopped precisely because it was decided that the *hardware* running it was obsolete and the choice fell on PPC instead.
Its kind of "catch 22". If the hardware runs into a dead end the sofware development can only get so far...

New hardware might just inspire people to re-animate the dead software.
With FPGA tech magically bringing us 68k tech that never actually existed we kind of stretch the old limits a bit.
If we can have a 200MHz 060 maybe some new challanges will inspire people to get back an develop for 68k Amiga OS.
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Old 15 July 2015, 18:38   #251
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I think choice is better than nothing and this provides a new path.

Personally I suggest to Jens:
1) since the built in chipram is faster than on the original AGA machines then a CPU board with just the 020ec and no fastram can be another compelling options for people interested in just a game machine.
2) if possible, implement all the glue logic in a small CPLD or FPGA. This will make design and bugfixing faster and will permit to people to contribute and experiment with the design. I appreciate there are possible concerns about people returning their boards after flashing broken custom bitstreams.
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Old 15 July 2015, 19:34   #252
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Could you use the AGA chips for legacy modes and put an RTG in FPGA or a SOC for everything else?
well i suppose you could but why would you? it would mean giving more board space to the legacy chips than the next-gen stuff, and that would be crazy, when you could just put the whole thing in the FPGA in any case.
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Old 15 July 2015, 23:50   #253
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And further than that, the people talking about "pushing the platform forward" usually are only talking about hardware.
Yep this ...


if i'm shelling out 200-300 Euro's (which is $300-$450aud not inc shipping costs and a lot of money) I'd like to have built in flicker fixer + RTG and be able to use USB mice, Optical drives and networking gear with my a1200.

AFAIK there is no affordable way (it requires a stack of v.expensive add-ons) to do this atm so imo AR should be enhancing our 68k experience or what is the point of it?
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Old 15 July 2015, 23:53   #254
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well i suppose you could but why would you? it would mean giving more board space to the legacy chips than the next-gen stuff, and that would be crazy, when you could just put the whole thing in the FPGA in any case.
good point.
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Old 16 July 2015, 00:41   #255
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the idea is great,

modern replacement A1200 motherboard......

but its crippled requiring an accelerator to even turn on,

it should have (like he said dollar for cpu etc) put it on the board and a simm socket for easy fast ram addon.

RGB output is a must as is floppy disk support.

then it's a 1200 + because it is an Amiga 1200 with a simm socket.

usb / indi / or whatever should be added extras.

this board is to replace dying existing motherboards, the idea is great, but it needs a cpu / rgb video and a simm socket.
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Old 16 July 2015, 01:09   #256
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but... such a simm socket would be useless if you DID use an accelerator... and it would add more cost than the cost of the 14MHz 020 card that is planned
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Old 16 July 2015, 01:16   #257
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@Jens, ahead of Monday's Q&A

1) Do you have a time frame yet?
2) Do you need a beta tester? I'd be happy to help if so.
3) You said the old ACA1230 might not be supported, that would be a shame as it's such a great accelerator (the 56mhz version)

Last edited by fitzsteve; 16 July 2015 at 01:24.
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Old 16 July 2015, 03:14   #258
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3) You said the old ACA1230 might not be supported, that would be a shame as it's such a great accelerator (the 56mhz version)

Yes, I can't understand how he referres to them as "old" accelerators. They are the more powerful ones, both the ACA 1230/56 (faster 030 ever) and ACA 1231/42 (10 Mips) that are the ones that I own (and they weren't cheap).

Supporting really old hardware like Blizzards and not supporting your own 5 years old hardware is odd.

That also makes me think that in 5 years your A1200 reloaded won't have any support as it will be old hardware.

Last edited by Retrofan; 16 July 2015 at 03:22.
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Old 16 July 2015, 03:28   #259
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If it goes anything like the Indivision MKII, then it won't have ANY support at all because the firmware will never be finished!
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Old 16 July 2015, 07:58   #260
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it's such a great accelerator (the 56mhz version)
Was thinking about that when the details came out. Would be a pity if it didn't support it.
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