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Old 23 December 2002, 15:29   #41
Ian
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LOL @ Galahad

And Faith, can you please answer this question:

I wanted to "Preserve" my OWN originals, with my OWN highscore/save game information already in place on a disk, would CAPS sort out these Images for me to write back to disk???

(Because you say there's no way the image file that is produced can be written back to disk without you guys playing with it)

Forget the fact it's not 100% original that matters nothing to me, I want to "Preserve" my OWN originals.

I want to "Preserve" my OWN disks.

(This is all theorical BTW as I have no originals, but this is what Amigaboy has been asking for his last 4 postings in this thread. Maybe a more direct phrasing of the question will get an answer)
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Old 23 December 2002, 15:31   #42
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Just downloaded it, excellent! Love the scans

Excellent work guys, keep it up!
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Old 23 December 2002, 17:42   #43
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Think I've comprehended it now.

RAW images can't be written back to real disk, but apparently IPF images can, can't they?
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Old 23 December 2002, 17:48   #44
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This example is VILEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!! I wouldn't care about preservarion of a floppy disk when i'm DEAD!!

Well CAPS is a project for people that care

I don't think anyone will care about the difference between and adf and a caps image in 100 years, ar shorter (I actually doubt it's any real use to anyone at the moment.)

I care. And i'm betting lots of people out there care. One thing is to get a cracked\ripped\unprotected\hacked ADF. Another is to get the full game, preserved, fully working, with manuals, cover box in full, etc ...

This isn't about your life, or my life, it's about AMIGA's life - And that will be preserved after we die; now, it will.
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Old 23 December 2002, 17:49   #45
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Couldn’t you have picked a slightly less crap game for your first release though?
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Old 23 December 2002, 17:53   #46
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by fiath
Fjrb: Writing CAPS dumps to disk cannot be done.

Yes i didn't meant dumps but analysed IPF's, oh unbelievably sexy, extremely inteligent, almost in an unholy way patient one!

:P
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Old 23 December 2002, 17:59   #47
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Jambo
Couldn’t you have picked a slightly less crap game for your first release though?

No

CAPS chose this one based on rarity. There was no ADF (all AFAIK) and it was on all MIA lists floating around. In a way it underlines the theme throughought the CAPS motto, it's not about flashy releases and pointless c0olness points, it's about true, serious preservation.

It's the same you love your own kid even if it's as ugly as yer own butt.
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Old 23 December 2002, 18:08   #48
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I got a candidate for next CAPS release, in behalf of Twist:

Tracker.
No ADF image (yet), nor any crack. Unless Icycool proves me wrong once again.
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Old 23 December 2002, 18:10   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by andreas
Think I've comprehended it now.

RAW images can't be written back to real disk, but apparently IPF images can, can't they?
Ok, let me see if i can explain this in a simple way, notice i will use the wrong words to refer to what i'm referring to, but all in an effort to make it simple(r)

Raw Dumps, are exactly what the name is, they're Raw, and unusable as a Dump. There. Each game has it's own protection scheme (considered impossible to get around until now), now:

Even with original Trace Machines who costed a butload of cash ... You'd still need a descriptor for the Copy Protection Scheme ...!

That's how nasty it was in terms of copy protection. So nasty even on expensive trace machines, they alone, weren't enough to master a copy!

Ok. Now, if a trace machine needs it's descriptor or "driver" to use, master that same floppy, game; sure as well the Raw Dump needs one too ... (and a lot of other stuff, there's a great distance from a temporary Raw Dump and an IPF final CAPS file.)

As you're realising by now, now enters CAPS. And IPF. Raw Dumps, in it of itself are useless and unusable for *any* use. They're Raw and can't be used for anything.
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Old 23 December 2002, 18:23   #50
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by NytroX86
I've read so many things about CAPS now that I'm starting to get confused. So here is my simple question: In the future, when, for example, my Settlers disks get knackered, will CAPS be able to provide me with what I need to make new exact Settlers disks that I can play on a real Amiga.

Yes.

They already can in emulation .

I don't want cracks cos I agree they spoil games with their messages at the start or built in cheat menus.

And missing intros, content, endings ...

I would want an exact copies of the disks including the copy protection (I doubt my manual will degrade too much over time) that I can use to make replacement disks or to install the game to a hard drive, assuming in the future DD disks will be impossible to find.

Exactly

If you can't and never will be able to use what CAPS are doing to put games on a real Amiga what exactly is the point?

No one ever said that is true

To preserve games to be used with emulators (Which I could live with as I accept my Amiga will probably die in the future)?

That's very important as well. Picture this, as floppies die, so does hardware. To ensure long run preservation, emulation is the CAPS of hardware, it preserves the hardware

- As a side note, i'd also note that the CAPS event will contribute to better emulation as untill now emulator coders only had cracks and hack in their hands and when an emulation error occured they couldn't be sure if it was an emulation error or another hack screwing things up -

But also for lots of people who no longer have an amiga, or that as you, might one day see it break down, although strange for someone of who owns the real thing right now, is a major part of it, in the long run it definitely is, how many Amigas will be working 10 years from now ? What about in 2050 ? If you're not 50 already, chances are you'll still be alive and wanting to play that old game again ... but you're Amiga might not be.

I hope you can clear things up for my because I think the principal behind CAPS is admirable, but I don't know how you plan to implement it.

Check up the FAQ at the site www.caps-project.org , i'm guessing most people would be surprised realising most questions made here already answered there, and a bit more
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Old 23 December 2002, 18:32   #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ian
LOL @ Galahad

And Faith, can you please answer this question:

I wanted to "Preserve" my OWN originals, with my OWN highscore/save game information already in place on a disk, would CAPS sort out these Images for me to write back to disk???

(Because you say there's no way the image file that is produced can be written back to disk without you guys playing with it)

Forget the fact it's not 100% original that matters nothing to me, I want to "Preserve" my OWN originals.

I want to "Preserve" my OWN disks.

(This is all theorical BTW as I have no originals, but this is what Amigaboy has been asking for his last 4 postings in this thread. Maybe a more direct phrasing of the question will get an answer)
You can easily realise that, with hundreds of games to go, thousands of manual pages to go, and all the box covers in that, and a few dozen of copy protection schemes already gone, a few apps still to code and release as well as libraries and the testing and analysing of it all, as cruel as it might seem, conserving a personal backup of one of the six billions humans in this planet we live in, kinda takes a low priority tick in a mailbox overflowing with mails ...



And CAPS members are keeping awake at 5am already, and I'm afraid there's no more hours in a day.

mmmmsleeep ....
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Old 23 December 2002, 18:53   #52
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Quote:
Originally posted by Fjrb
You can easily realise that, with hundreds of games to go, thousands of manual pages to go, and all the box covers in that, and a few dozen of copy protection schemes already gone, a few apps still to code and release as well as libraries and the testing and analysing of it all, as cruel as it might seem, conserving a personal backup of one of the six billions humans in this planet we live in, kinda takes a low priority tick in a mailbox overflowing with mails ...
LOL!!!
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Old 23 December 2002, 19:19   #53
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Re: Wizard Warz

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Galahad/FLT
I have it cracked here, and a WHDLoad version, I just thought the game was so shit that no-one would remark its non-release!

Well that's how much we love Amiga games, we don't think any is sh*t

No offence, but I think a more 'ground breaking' game would have been in order instead of Canvas Softwares 'non tour de force'!!

We apart from all that was mentioned, we do not believe any Preservation is "ground breaking" at all apart from collectors item grading.

In all honesty CAPS is merely preserving a classic game, who is CAPS to announce 'ground breaking' 'releases' when we're not 'releasing' a game, merely preserving it; the same way a crack group doesn't 'release' a game, it cracks it. Game publishers release the game.

The very same way, Game Makers, do the 'ground breaking', CAPS would never break any ground by a game's content preservation - The Amiga game maker did! The same way, when a crack group 'releases' a game, it's not breaking any ground, be the game Speedball2, Gods, Kick Off II, SOFTB or the crack group Paradox, Crystal, Lemon, Melon, Quartex or Angels. The game makers did!

The breaking ground changes CAPS makes are all technologic. The tech advance that is to truly, absolutly, faithfully, preserve games, that being copy protected and on unstable magnetic media, were considered a lost cause protecting in it's purest pristine form.

This is all CAPS does, and it's everything CAPS does. We'll never appropriate or desire for us fame that pertains to outside individuals. We actually do this because we love their work and considered them artists, and their products arts, and as thus worthy of a quality marked faithful preservation.

CAPS is not about effemerate and appropriated 'fame'.

The first CAPS preservation isn't important because it was Wizard Wars or Speedball2, but because it was the first preservation ever...! Technical impossiblities were broken, new capabilities and possibilities were laid down. Who knows what will come next. Now, this, yes, is ground breaking.

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Old 23 December 2002, 20:15   #54
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How about the scanning of manuals/documentation to go with the games? or even the box covers?

I would be happy to help in this as collect original games, magazines and coverdisks.
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Old 23 December 2002, 20:46   #55
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Yes! Everything that comes with the game is scanned. We even preserve the disk label, audio tapes, etc.

Feel free to mail the contact address on the site!
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Old 23 December 2002, 20:51   #56
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Nice. Keep up the good work!
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Old 23 December 2002, 20:55   #57
fiath
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ian
LOL @ Galahad

And Faith, can you please answer this question:

I wanted to "Preserve" my OWN originals, with my OWN highscore/save game information already in place on a disk, would CAPS sort out these Images for me to write back to disk???

(Because you say there's no way the image file that is produced can be written back to disk without you guys playing with it)

Forget the fact it's not 100% original that matters nothing to me, I want to "Preserve" my OWN originals.

I want to "Preserve" my OWN disks.

(This is all theorical BTW as I have no originals, but this is what Amigaboy has been asking for his last 4 postings in this thread. Maybe a more direct phrasing of the question will get an answer)
Okay. I see.

Basically no. We are not interested in preserving a copy of games that are not what was originally on the disk at manufacture.

I can see why you might want your hiscores etc. but if one track is modified by hiscore, how do we know if part of the game on that track is also modified? Answer: We don't.

Even if we did, that is not what CAPS is above. Sorry, but that is just not what we are about!

UPDATE (just some more)
It is not preservation, it was not sold with your own highscores, with your own save games... Stick with cracks if they work for you.
Collectors generally want unaltered and complete games as they were sold originally.

And there were only a couple of versions of each game *sold in the shops* mostly PAL and NTSC versions, quite often only just one - this may be new to you hunting down hundreds of images of the same game with a different cracker intro in a hope that the game does not crash at level 76.

Last edited by fiath; 23 December 2002 at 21:21.
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Old 23 December 2002, 20:58   #58
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So well, some words from me !

I just had a look at the first release (and tested with WinUAE btw ) and I think it is GREAT !!!

You get everything you need to play a game, including the manual etc. ! This is really awesome, no more fake cracks, corrupt disk images etc. ......

Don´t get me wrong, I don´t want ADF´s to be replaced, adf´s are great to play those games on a real Amiga ! CAPS is THE perfect extension to ADF !!!!

Keep it that way Congrats
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Old 23 December 2002, 21:15   #59
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GUYS!

I just had some interesting mails come to me.

Wizard Warz is not a crap game!! Though it looks crappy. I didn't bother playing it much since I don't have time, but apparently it is similar to Archon. You need to read the manual etc. But then that is supplied...

Wizard Wars != Wizard Warz

There may be some confusion on that, the games are completely different. Wizard *Wars* IS a crap game though.

@RetroMan, glad you like it. IPF's will be used on real Amiga's too soon.
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Old 23 December 2002, 21:23   #60
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On "Wizard Wars" (fake), and Wizard Warz (Real)

Hi

I got contacted by the higher counsil of CAPS, and besides the usual beating, the counsil asked me to convey this message.

It seems as though the ADFs' mentioned as in possession by two persons here may not be the real Wizard Warz, but a so called "Wizard Wars", note the S and the Z. Anyone feel free to investigate the matter further, confirm it or deny it.

It is - by no means - a fulcral issue, but apparently, CAPS was and is correct and Wizard Warz existed nowhere. Thus making it's preservation all the more significant.


___M_e_s_s_a_g_e____


"Here you go the one on amiga lists: not really the preserved game from 16 years ago

The same one I got from Hoild thinking it was the game I was looking for.

http://ftp.uni-paderborn.de/aminetbin/find?wizard+wars

WizardWar ***s***.lha game/misc Shareware strategy game


Short: Shareware strategy game

INTRODUCTION.
Wizard Wars is a shareware strategy game for the amiga. It runs under WB 1.3, 2.0 and (fingers crossed) 3.0. It requires about 450k of RAM, and multitasks quite happily. It is lacking fancy graphics, sound, and could do with improved gameplay, but otherwise it is quite playable with the sole exception that every minute or so a requester will pop-up asking you to register. (ReminderWare?)

The program that came with this doc file requires 2 fonts (sapphire-14 and garnet-9), and the diskfont.library before it'll work, if you don't have these in your fonts: and libs: directories you should copy them there. (If you don't the program will tell you what it needs, likewise should you not have enough contiguous memory available it'll tell you).

The shareware option mentioned above is as always completely discretionary, however you should support shareware authors as I know if I don't make any money out of this, I'll find something else to do (probably something very boring that doesn't pay well and leaves me with little spare time. Like a job - God forbid!). Anyway, I'm only asking for £8, It would be a fiver but after VAT, disks, postage and packing there'd be next to
nothing left for my time and effort.
In addition to salving your tender conscience, if you register, you'll receive back a bootable disk with the game on, a printed manual (which is invaluable if you want to be able to play the game properly - the notes that follow are brief and some gameplay is obscure), and perhaps most importantly, the chance to upgrade to the 'real' version of the game when it's completed for a few quid to cover costs.
This 'real' version is what I'd have liked Wizard wars to be all along, it'll have proper graphics by a real artist (and not my efforts), proper sound by a real musician (my efforts were so bad I couldn't bring myself to include them in this version), better gameplay (I learnt a lot from coding this game up, I've got lots of ideas that will be included to make things much more interesting), and basically turn this game into something that'll
rival some commercial games.
If you don't register, apart from the fact that I may not have enough money to pay the artists I've got interested in the project (whereupon obviously version 2 simply will not appear) version 2 will cost you quite a bit more than if you register now.

Shareware fees (£8) should made payable to 'NEBULA SOFTWARE' and
addressed to: Nebula Software,
42, Goldspink Lane,
Sandyford,
Newcastle upon Tyne.
NE2 1NR.
ENGLAND.

Like I said, you'll get a printed manual and self-booting disk back.



THE GAME.
Wizard Wars is a simple strategy game, you play a wizard in his tower who creates demons to send out to destroy the other wizards' towers.
The demons can move about (different terrain uses more movement points) by clicking on the adjacent hex you want it to move into. Note that you must have an active demon in order to move it, and that it must be displayed (ie, you can't move your demon if the map window is displaying anything else - like a targetted demon).
Demons can cast spells at other demons, to do this click the 'target' button until the required demon is displayed, and then click the button with the spell written on it - each demon has 3 spells, one attack, one defensive and one miscellaneous. Some spells can only be cast upon the
casting demon (like fly).

You'll need mana for most things, your wizard gets 25 points each turn plus extra for any captured cities and villages. Creating demons costs this mana, and is different from the mana the demons have to cast spells with (demons also use up 1 point of mana each turn simply to exist).

Each wizard has a flag, things possessed by him will have this flag above them on the display. The board/stats button brings up a full map of the play area, you can make different things flash (and at different rates using the slider at the side of the gadgets) to see who owns what, or to see where things are. The zig-zag line (border) that can be displayed shows what is seen on the map window on the main screen so you can see where you
are at the moment. If you set the slider to 0 (as far up as it'll go), the corresponding things will not flash but will remain highlighted.

The symbols on the fullmap are: v- village, c- city, #- castle, |?|-tower (? is the first letter of the wizard's name), ?- demon (? is the first letter of the owning wizard's name).

The above are brief notes on how to play, if you have difficulty,
please buy the manual from me - I worked hard to make it easy to
understand, unlike the above which I suppose'll be totally incomprehensible to you.

If you have any comments about this please contact me.
Andy Bolstridge, Nebula Software 1992.


============================= Archive contents =============================

Original Packed Ratio Date Time Name
-------- ------- ----- --------- -------- -------------
170376 50440 70.3% 16-Nov-92 01:02:24 WizardWars
4893 2371 51.5% 16-Nov-92 23:08:38 WizardWars.doc
914 349 61.8% 12-Nov-92 17:01:52 WizardWars.info
1279 634 50.4% 16-Nov-92 23:13:14 installation
-------- ------- ----- --------- --------
177462 53794 69.6% 02-Sep-95 00:00:00 4 files"

____E_n_d__of__m_e_s_s_a_g_e________

Last edited by Fjrb; 23 December 2002 at 21:49.
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