English Amiga Board Amiga Lore


Go Back   English Amiga Board > Main > Retrogaming General Discussion

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 19 April 2015, 02:25   #1
eXeler0
Registered User

eXeler0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Sweden
Age: 43
Posts: 1,388
Most efficient way to cool a MC 68060 CPU?

Hey there ;-)
So about the 060... The old PGA packaging (and material used for it) that was used at the time is not the easiest to cool efficiently.
Curiously, even the first mask/ version (XC...) which is manufactured at 0.6um runs pretty fine @50MHz with no cooler. But even the latest mask manufactured at 0.42um will need a cooler @75Mhz and probably a heat sink @66MHz.

Question to those of you out there who have experimented with various coolers / sinks etc.. What is the best way too cool a (latest mask) 68060 if you want to overclock it? (Rumours on The Internets have it that 106MHz has been reached by some dude)
(And how high can you go without increasing voltage?)

First, whats the "best cooling trick" any category.. (Heat sink? Fan? Dry Ice? Water Cooling? Liquid Nitrogen? Magic beans? etc..?)
Second: Best cooling when it's sitting on an Apollo 1260 in a desktop Amiga 1200 case (space is tight under that keyboard..).

Cheers and thanx
/eX

Last edited by eXeler0; 19 April 2015 at 12:43.
eXeler0 is offline  
AdSense AdSense  
Old 19 April 2015, 12:42   #2
wXR
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: New York
Posts: 552
I'm also interested in better understanding this. Fans in Amigas do not impress me; what are better, more space age ways to do this?
wXR is offline  
Old 19 April 2015, 18:12   #3
Michael Sykes
WinUAE end user

Michael Sykes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Bremen
Age: 38
Posts: 623
Maybe a custom solution with heatpipes like in consoles.
Michael Sykes is offline  
Old 19 April 2015, 18:40   #4
Megol
Registered User

Megol's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: inside the emulator
Posts: 228
Given your listing of liquid nitrogen I guess you really mean the most efficient way?
Slowly grid the package until the die is exposed then use spray nozzles to apply a thin film of a coolant liquid onto the die. The coolant will then evaporate - a very efficient way to remove excess heat. The liquid will probably need to be cooled down to liquid form for a practical (read: closed loop) system.


But the best realistic solution would be the heatpipe one, close to the same efficiency but much easier to do. It also works by boiling a liquid but can't by design be as efficient as a custom cooling system. Not that it matters for a 060 - they simply don't get hot enough.
Megol is offline  
Old 19 April 2015, 20:58   #5
eXeler0
Registered User

eXeler0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Sweden
Age: 43
Posts: 1,388
Megol, thanx.
Well, the first part of my question was more theoretical because Im not sure what the best way to cool that ceramical PGA is... and the second is of a more practical nature. How to actually use something that is usable in the tight space on an Apollo accelerator. You cant even fit a normal fan unless its offset to the far end of the chip.
Im actually pretty sure that whoever managed to clock it beyond 80MHz did it in a tower case.
eXeler0 is offline  
Old 28 April 2015, 01:50   #6
Michael Sykes
WinUAE end user

Michael Sykes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Bremen
Age: 38
Posts: 623
What about cold plates?
Or an old Laptop cooler like this one.
http://i00.i.aliimg.com/wsphoto/v0/6...EAT-b-font.jpg
Michael Sykes is offline  
Old 28 April 2015, 12:55   #7
eXeler0
Registered User

eXeler0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Sweden
Age: 43
Posts: 1,388
The ceramic enclosure of the 040/060 is different to modern packages where metal is used to disperse heat so questions about this monster here.. however lots of people get their 040s working just fine by gluing rather simple fans on top of the CPU. So the big radial fan in your pic can probably get the job done :-)

Btw, speaking of glue. What would be a good glue / thermal paste to use on 040/060?
eXeler0 is offline  
Old 28 April 2015, 23:18   #8
Michael Sykes
WinUAE end user

Michael Sykes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Bremen
Age: 38
Posts: 623
My pic was not about the fan but more about the very flat metalpad and the heatpipe.
So you dont have to worry about the limited space. The copper pipe will send the heat from the cpu-pad to the radiator underneath the fan.
To attach anything you could use one of those self glue thermal pads and secure everything with something like cable straps.
Sounds a bit MacGuyverish? Thats Amiga - get used to it... ;-)
Michael Sykes is offline  
Old 30 April 2015, 13:10   #9
eXeler0
Registered User

eXeler0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Sweden
Age: 43
Posts: 1,388
You have a point Michael. Given the space restrictions of the Apollo 1260 board for example, a metal plate with a custom heatpipe probably is the only viable solution for achieving high clock speeds in a desktop A1200.
If only we could 3d print Copper ;-)
eXeler0 is offline  
Old 01 May 2015, 03:00   #10
Michael Sykes
WinUAE end user

Michael Sykes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Bremen
Age: 38
Posts: 623
Call NASA...
http://www.nasa.gov/marshall/news/na...gine-part.html
Michael Sykes is offline  
Old 01 May 2015, 15:22   #11
eXeler0
Registered User

eXeler0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Sweden
Age: 43
Posts: 1,388
:-) neat, now where's that phone number to NASA I wrote down the other day ;-)

Btw, Ive been browsing laptop heatpipe passive coolers on eBay and AliExpress, theres a bunch of stuff out there that looks decent but its not likely Ill find something that exactly fits my needs.
eXeler0 is offline  
Old 01 May 2015, 15:39   #12
Megol
Registered User

Megol's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: inside the emulator
Posts: 228
Most notebook/laptop coolers aren't passive, even very efficient machines tend to have a small fan to keep air circulating. If it's noise you don't want then it would be possible to run the fan slowly.
Megol is offline  
Old 01 May 2015, 17:44   #13
eXeler0
Registered User

eXeler0's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Sweden
Age: 43
Posts: 1,388
Megol, its mostly about lack of space. Noise is of secondary concern.
I have an Apollo with a socketed 060, there's not many milimiters between one of the edges of the 060 and the bottom side of the keyboard.
A custom design could easily solve it but it wont be easy or cheap to get it just right. (Unless someone has a brilliant idea, in which case I'm all ears. ;-)
eXeler0 is offline  
AdSense AdSense  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
68040/68060 CPU Speed Steve support.WinUAE 5 03 June 2014 22:38
68060 cpu alphagemini Hardware mods 11 02 June 2014 18:29
Amiga's most efficient and cleanest coders. lordofchaos Retrogaming General Discussion 47 10 February 2013 16:33
What 68060 CPU's are "the right" mask? Mr B Hardware mods 9 29 September 2012 20:31
Most memory efficient way to run WHDLoad on a 2MB A600? e5frog project.WHDLoad 2 25 July 2010 19:41

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 22:16.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Page generated in 0.21003 seconds with 11 queries