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Old 12 April 2015, 17:02   #61
Marcuz
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thorham View Post
While it's certainly not too much, you can't live on that if your market is hundreds of people. People should consider the fact that there's not much money to be made in Amiga software. Developing Amiga software is something you do because you enjoy doing it, any money you get out of it is just a bonus.
I think work is work, no matter how many people would enjoy a product.

Financial model is a different thing, so the producer may want / should want to take its intended market, how big or how small it is.

But what, a developer should not - never ever! - wish to make some money, even a small amount of it, just because he worked from his bedroom in his free hours and the product done could not ever be the 100% of his income?

No, worse than that, if you enjoy doing a thing, then you should do it for free?
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Old 12 April 2015, 18:07   #62
Mrs Beanbag
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i already did the work for free, if you want the source code too you'll have to dance for it.
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Old 12 April 2015, 19:47   #63
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i already did the work for free, if you want the source code too you'll have to dance for it.
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Old 12 April 2015, 21:14   #64
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You are by no means required to accept anyone else's conceptual alterations, or even to pay them any mind.
Yeah but this happens:
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Originally Posted by commodorejohn View Post
Not to mention that forks are never developed in isolation. If you release the source to a project that's still ongoing, you're going to get called upon by anybody who has an issue with it while you're still trying to get it sorted out yourself.
Making a project so simple into something this complex is just detrimental to its further development of it by us. I don't even want to think of any of this, gives me a headache .
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Old 12 April 2015, 21:40   #65
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Can we just agree that open sourcing is not for everyone? wXR is trying to use this thread to collect information, encourage people to share etc., maybe the discussion about the alleged evil aspects of free software could be moved to another thread?
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Old 12 April 2015, 22:36   #66
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Indeed. I don't really know what to say to some of these comments, except to reiterate what I stated about there being no obligations. I would also encourage you all to participate in an open source project on a platform like GitHub sometime, so you can see how it works.
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Old 12 April 2015, 23:11   #67
strim
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There are a few things that I don't understand about this thread, or rather, about some reactions.

No one is forcing anyone to share their code against their will. It is always the author's (or... current copyright owner) decision whether to open their code or not. And I think it would be wrong to try to somehow "force" the source release on the author.

Sure, I think it would be better if more Amiga projects would be open source, or at least... more open in their nature (since it's so helpful for others in the community!). But it's just an opinion. And on the internet, you know, everyone is entitled to have an opinion. Me having an opinion does not necessarily mean, I expect everyone will suddenly comply with my vision of the world.

Dear developers. If you are hesitant, how about trying to build your next Amiga project in open source way? As an experiment. Give it a try. Maybe you'll see the advantages of this way once you try it. It's fun collaborating with others. It's also an excuse to push yourself further. Write better (or more readable) code, help others understand it. Etc.
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Old 12 April 2015, 23:49   #68
Mrs Beanbag
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Indeed. I don't really know what to say to some of these comments, except to reiterate what I stated about there being no obligations. I would also encourage you all to participate in an open source project on a platform like GitHub sometime, so you can see how it works.
i know how it works. you submit a pull request and almost a year later nobody has even looked at it.

ok it probably wouldn't be like that on some EAB project because we're all great! but it's not all coders' Utopia.
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Old 13 April 2015, 05:11   #69
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i know how it works. you submit a pull request and almost a year later nobody has even looked at it.

ok it probably wouldn't be like that on some EAB project because we're all great! but it's not all coders' Utopia.
I've seen this happen before, I know what you mean. Some of my pull requests have been treated this way. When I queried the author privately, you know what I discovered? He didn't want to include my pull request but also didn't want to be rude, so was rather torn about how to handle it. After a 5 minute conversation, we realized the conflict, I made a few changes, and it was merged.

Nobody comes out of the womb knowing this stuff, so let's not be so dramatic and generalizing of the process!
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Old 13 April 2015, 12:49   #70
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Can we just agree that open sourcing is not for everyone?
It's for everyone but Windows users, who aren't used to the concept of open source software. Something like WinRAR or mIRC needs to be paid for? Don't make me laugh.
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Old 13 April 2015, 13:32   #71
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It's for everyone but Windows users, who aren't used to the concept of open source software. Something like WinRAR or mIRC needs to be paid for? Don't make me laugh.
How is that anything unlike IBrowse and AmIRC, which both cost money when they were as relevant as winrar and mirc
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Old 13 April 2015, 14:41   #72
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Originally Posted by britelite View Post
AmIRC (...)
Actually, there was an attempt at open sourcing AmIRC, and if I remember correctly, the original authors of OS3 version agreed to release the source. Even Sourceforge.net project was created for this purpose.

But then, other people who contributed some source code, bug fixes etc. for MorphOS port came and torpedoed the release.

From legal point of view, they had the rights to block the release, since if you want to release the source under a single license (let's say slap the GPL on top of the whole project), all of the authors that ever contributed need to agree. Anyway the project to open source AmIRC failed miserably.

My educated guess is that the real cause was "oh no, we can't let AmIRC become open, since then these evil OS4 people will also get the new version that we worked so hard to patch up".

Now, I don't remember the whole story. If anyone remembers the exact details, feel free to correct me.

Found (english) summary of the whole affair on amiga-news.de: http://www.amiga-news.de/en/news/AN-...-00026-EN.html

Last edited by strim; 13 April 2015 at 14:46.
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Old 13 April 2015, 17:53   #73
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How is that anything unlike IBrowse and AmIRC, which both cost money when they were as relevant as winrar and mirc
Well it's not, but the difference is open source was basically unheard of when that software was written. Things are different now.
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Old 13 April 2015, 19:16   #74
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Well it's not, but the difference is open source was basically unheard of when that software was written. Things are different now.
I was just pointing out that is kind of amusing to point fingers at Windows users while we in Amigaland also seem to have (had) to pay for every weird piece of software. And your examples of Windows software were just as hilarious
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Old 14 April 2015, 08:36   #75
wXR
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EmuTOS – http://eab.abime.net/showthread.php?t=64812

EmuTOS is a GEMDOS compatible operating system for Atari ST series computers. It is made from Digital Research's GPLed original sources and is a free and open source replacement for common TOS images for Atari ST emulators.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/emutos/
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Old 14 April 2015, 21:08   #76
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Well it's not, but the difference is open source was basically unheard of when that software was written. Things are different now.
You really must live in your own alternative reality. And no, things aren't different now.
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Old 15 April 2015, 15:52   #77
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You really must live in your own alternative reality. And no, things aren't different now.
Care to elaborate?
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Old 15 April 2015, 16:18   #78
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If something is still making someone money then you are basically asking them to forgo any future earnings and give it away for free.

Personally, I have no problem with programmers keeping the code to themselves. What I would like though is if they have got bored or moved on to something that's actually going to make them money this day and age (like a PC or mobile app) then release their Amiga sources and let someone else take over if such a person is out there.

But ultimately how fruitful will this be? Dopus 4 sources were released and there was maybe 2 updates 5 years ago and nothing since. Scratch that, it was 12 years ago!! (Although looking at the source there have been some changes up to 2012 at least)

I don't know what you wish to gain really.

I really think you over estimate the popularity of the platform for programmers, I imagine the enthusiasts are working on their own stuff already and anyone else has already moved on to current platforms and only uses the Amiga for nostaligia not for scratching his head for hours on end trying to figure out someone elses code.
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Old 15 April 2015, 16:35   #79
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Care to elaborate?
Things have been released as "open source" a long time before now, in fact the operating systems for several early systems were released wholly for free. Then the microcomputer revolution created a lot of software that was available freely and modifiable. The main difference to now was that software were often available as public domain or without any explicit license (but released with the intention of it being freely distributed and modified).
The GPL, MIT, BSD licences all dates back to the late 80's as does software that uses them.
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Old 15 April 2015, 17:13   #80
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I really think you over estimate the popularity of the platform for programmers, I imagine the enthusiasts are working on their own stuff already and anyone else has already moved on to current platforms and only uses the Amiga for nostaligia not for scratching his head for hours on end trying to figure out someone elses code.
Sadly agreed too
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