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Old 24 February 2015, 19:06   #61
wawa
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Originally Posted by phx View Post
The idea is good, and always has been, but the reality is that even if we had AmigaOS open-sourced that there would be dozends of groups who had their own idea about the future of AmigaOS. The result would be much worse than it is now.
do not observe that on aros i must admit. the problem is rather that open source and collaboration on common goal isnt taken seriously enough in the rest of amiga scene, and therefore aros lacks coverage on genuine 68k amiga dedicated elements, which in turn results in people blaming it for not being viable alternative.
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Old 24 February 2015, 20:27   #62
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do not observe that on aros i must admit. the problem is rather that open source and collaboration on common goal isnt taken seriously enough in the rest of amiga scene, and therefore aros lacks coverage on genuine 68k amiga dedicated elements, which in turn results in people blaming it for not being viable alternative.
Yup: actual amigaland = EGOland, where almost each capable dev want to be worshipped as a hero and a savior by the Kommunity and other soluitions are crap (or impure as AROS = intel = satan! or even - omg - "commuinist! no company behind")... me too sometimes feel to want to join the "valhalla" by coding my crappy blitz games and being regarded as a Deity [ok, that and my wish to have my projects finally out after years]

Last edited by saimon69; 24 February 2015 at 20:30. Reason: better grammar, maybe
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Old 24 February 2015, 20:34   #63
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Originally Posted by saimon69 View Post
Yup: actual amigaland = EGOland, where almost each capable dev want to be worshipped as a hero and a savior by the Kommunity and other soluitions are crap (or impure as AROS = intel = satan! or even - omg - "commuinist! no company behind")... me too sometimes feel to want to join the "valhalla" by coding my crappy blitz games and being regarded as a Deity [ok, that and my wish to have my projects finally out after years]
So, why are you here? Simple question!
And take your communist crap to another thread please.
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Old 24 February 2015, 21:02   #64
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er, the sarcasm light is off, please turn it on: what i wrote is the perception that people in the so-called mainstream forums like a.org and aw.net seems to have about AROS, and how some developers seems to relate with other people - do i need to mention Cosmos,Tobias Richter or the os4 devs?

...if to be legitimated to give my opinion have to show my pedigree then let me: a past of amiga musician and graphic artist/animator, am also an advocate of AROS, going around to talk, writing a blog and even exposing at open source events like SCALE in 2009 and last year (not this year, too busy with work and trying to move), been an icaros tester, an ARIX tester, tried to do zulu stuff; at the and also writing blog articles on an italian tech site;

I fully endorse the idea to develop AROS 68k further so to have a modern system in old machines and a viable one in the FPGA incarnations with the undoubtful advantage of being open and so no company to beg our stuff on: in my wildest dreams would love to see AROS 68k ported on other 68k machines so to have a sort of common platform to cross-develop with given system-friendly programming, like x68000 and falcon;

is just that p15535 me off see the inertia of people in those two forums, ready to dismiss the effort due to trivial things like "lacking the name", "is incomplete", "is a bad thing to have more distros" (yup, andres said that) and other excuses to just piggyback and not help...

Last edited by saimon69; 24 February 2015 at 21:18. Reason: need to write more
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Old 24 February 2015, 21:15   #65
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OK, I apologize if I got the context of your post wrong. But, what has this thread got to do with Aros, a.org or aw.net? Although Amigaworld.net did seem to have most of the information to begin with, it has derailed into total nonsense much like this one. If Hyperion survive this, we will find out in March, if not, we will find out in March. Until then anything else is conjecture and absolutely NOTHING to do with Aros or communism!
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Old 24 February 2015, 21:19   #66
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@pyterman
i was pointing at wawa post on how people dismiss AROS, and joint coordinate efforts in general, as viable alternative for survival: that struck a nerve on me so i think i went OT, but if thats what os4 users want that will have, just hope they dont come back crying ^^

And about the C word, is an exaggeration: some of the above seems to have problem with an operating system not belonging to a single well defined entity [to untrained eye however open source seems really a socialist effort] - same as someone having a problem on where the operating system code comes from...

Last edited by saimon69; 24 February 2015 at 21:34.
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Old 24 February 2015, 21:34   #67
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Ahh sorry, I'm with you on that one. I must admit I keep an eye on Aros and use it myself in a VM, but its not AmigaOS and never will be. I also don't or will ever use OS4 but thought this was worth reporting at the time. OS4 has been flogging a dead horse with PPC from day one, but that's what they wanted and that's what they got. Funny thing is, 68k OS3 seems to have got more updates in the time since OS4 was born, and may it continue!
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Old 24 February 2015, 21:37   #68
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@pyterman

well if more people would decide to work on it it might become even better than Amiga OS, even completely rewrite it as they wish and the good thing is that they will be legally free to do that!

but let's end this ot now, we clarified
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Old 24 February 2015, 21:49   #69
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We'll find out come next month what's going to happen. I really wouldn't like to even take a guess at this point.
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Old 24 February 2015, 22:09   #70
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what if ibm succeed and the amigaos 5 works on it ????
http://www.extremetech.com/computing...erver-monopoly
This is perhaps what they were waiting for ???
Everybody seem always thinking that aeon hyperion have no others cards than actual ppc... But perhaps they were waiting for the new ibm processors ??? If this is the case they will keep it for them. Don't need to kill me, it's just a supposition.
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Old 24 February 2015, 22:14   #71
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Yeah, and the moon turns to cheese and everyone becomes rich overnight! Come on.
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Old 24 February 2015, 22:25   #72
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what if ibm succeed and the amigaos 5 works on it ????
It's not a question of hardware but software.
A fistful of coders programming in their spare time can't do miracles.

By the way, the linked cpu costs a fortune.
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Old 24 February 2015, 22:26   #73
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I knew that i'll have this kind of reply, who knows ??? AEON has the money if they see that there is a possiblity they could perhaps try to do something.
I can't beleive that they are just doing all those stuffs just for fun, i don't eat it. They must have a plan, i don't know which one but they surely have one.
If they have no plans what is the goal ??? If they are just doing this for fun, it's just a crazy stuff. Perhaps i'm wrong and those guys from AEON are just there for fun, i hope they are not so crazy but who knows ?? One fact is sure if they stay on the poor ppc cpu market, there is no futur like there is no present even, on this fact we think the same. I would perfer a fpga 68020 200 mhz + amiga os to a fair price than a overpriced ppc amigaone. thanks to them to make it available for the guys who had a lot of money but if there is nothing else, i don't see the point.
I still hope to see something new in the computing industry because i find that for the moment, this is really boring... boring like hell... I still hope that a big company like IBM will give it a strike, but it's just a hope and if the amiga could jump on the train, it's even better... But i really just hope that something fresh will happen. intel, intel, intel... win,win,windows, etc etc... It was less boring in the 80's.

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By the way, the linked cpu costs a fortune.
Perhaps they will do a cheaper version later for home computers ??

Last edited by turrican3; 24 February 2015 at 22:32.
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Old 24 February 2015, 22:34   #74
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@saimon69
I have worked with many current Amiga devs and I do *not* have the same overall opinon of them. Frank "phx" Wille, Chris "Novacoder" Raynor, Olaf "olsen" Barthel, Peter Keunecke, Toni Wilen, Phil "meynaf" Guichardon, Alain Thellier, Chris Young, Andy "broadblues" Broad, Eduardo "cowcat" Nicolau, Samuel "Samurai" Crow, Piotr "ami_stuff" Bandurski, Don Aden, Wawrzyniec "wawa" Tokarski, Philippe "mrodfr" Bovier, etc. are exceptionally friendly and helpful especially considering they aren't making any money. Maybe that is "commune" like where everyone pitches in. These guys are meek, not violent overthrowers of the system even though some of us have had bad experiences and been frustrated by that system. I think most of us would like to see some positive change in this regard and I'm hoping it will happen now that A-Eon has more leverage in regards to Hyperion. I've seen some positive moves so far.

Last edited by matthey; 24 February 2015 at 22:40.
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Old 24 February 2015, 22:34   #75
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FPGA and emulation is the ONLY way forward for Amiga OS, well OS3 anyway. All the Amiga software is 68k but 68k CPU's are dead and no longer developed. Once these new FPGA accelerators come out and hit the scene, that problem is eliminated.
As for OS4, who knows? PPC is a dying breed too and soon to be extinct, perhaps its only chance will be FPGA also.
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Old 24 February 2015, 23:53   #76
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matt, please dont call me in line with actual developers. also, you know im considered a 68k troll on forums, so i dont fit in your definition.;P
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Old 25 February 2015, 00:09   #77
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@matthey

Actually i do cooperate with Meynaf, pity the time is tight so no work done lately

Plus my rant was more directed for the os4 core devs and their holier than thou attitude and people like Cosmos...

and a personal little grudge on the unwillingness to open source or resell tornado 3d that was an interesting program - in its right ok but I did not liked it

Last edited by saimon69; 25 February 2015 at 01:04. Reason: precisation
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Old 25 February 2015, 01:07   #78
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Originally Posted by ptyerman View Post
Ahh sorry, I'm with you on that one. I must admit I keep an eye on Aros and use it myself in a VM, but its not AmigaOS and never will be. I also don't or will ever use OS4 but thought this was worth reporting at the time. OS4 has been flogging a dead horse with PPC from day one, but that's what they wanted and that's what they got. Funny thing is, 68k OS3 seems to have got more updates in the time since OS4 was born, and may it continue!
Aros is not Amiga OS and will never be? I have to ask why?

I am starting to compare the different system libraries to make porting easier. I have started with intuition:
http://www.aros-platform.de/html/intuition.html

as you see aros implements almost all 3.1/3.5 routines. On graphics library it is similar (differences are there more if everything in every routine is already implemented). That is not really surprising because Aros main goal is to implement 3.1. API. So what else is Amiga OS. It is a certain directory structure (the same), the ROMs (Rom replacements from Toni Wilen), 68k (Aros is completely 68k). Then there is only the desktop, the Wanderer (Aros original) is not very good but you can also use Scalos and Magellan. On Aros Vision I use Magellan (the normal 68k version), there is AHI, CybergraphX 3, WHDLoad, MUI 3.8, ClassAct and so on. What more Amiga would you expect?
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Old 25 February 2015, 01:46   #79
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aros will never be amiga os because its aros and its all good like that. but it can well substitute for an improved version of amiga kickstart/workbench either on actual amiga or derivate hardware. but right, this isnt a thread about it. i only posted a comment to phx, now back to topic.
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Old 25 February 2015, 01:48   #80
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matt, please dont call me in line with actual developers. also, you know im considered a 68k troll on forums, so i dont fit in your definition.;P
You strike some nerves sometimes but you are not a troll. You are a valuable part of a development team even if you are a better tester than coder. In a better Amiga development environment, you would probably be working with audio or something more artistic. Every developer has different strengths and weaknesses. I could never code C/C++ with the likes of a NovaCoder or Alain Thellier either .

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Actually i do cooperate with Meynaf, pity the time is tight so no work done lately

Plus my rant was more directed for the os4 core devs and their holier than thou attitude and people like Cosmos...
I understand the frustration, and trust me, other developers here have dealt with it too. People like Cosmos have let it get to them and buck the system. The Hyperion devs are getting a wake up call and a little Karma back at them. I think we may have a little shake up here which could be good. We will see who is picked for 68k W3D development. I would try to get Alain Thellier as the lead programmer even if it meant loaning him hardware. He is the only Amiga guy who knows 3D as well as the Frieden brothers, he is a good programmer and he is a team player. He should have had access to the W3D sources a long time ago and then there would be a software renderer for it instead of Wazp3D. There are other little injustices that would need addressing before the AmigaOS 68k and PPC could move forward together.
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