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Old 18 February 2015, 23:44   #41
imigger
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morphos is still great , but i said years agao if they never ported it to ARM it would die and im right .
look at the raspberry pi2 quadcore and it runs amiga stuff lovly , thats the sort of amiga we want small and cheap , not 2 grand for an old ppc computer that technically slow as shit.
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Old 19 February 2015, 02:16   #42
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And "please no", lets not put any Apple or Linux similarities in to AmigaOS. If you want Apple or Linux, then use those platforms.
Other != evil. Write it one million times.

On which basis would you exclude "Apple or Linux similarities"? If a good feature on these systems exist which doesn't on OS abc, then it only makes sense to augment OS abc with it.

Should we reject a Dock like system because the Mac has one?
Should we reject the notion of a command line because Unix had one (before AmigaOS by the way)?
Should we reject all the good and modern things these systems have and AmigaOS does not have yet because it's contrary to the holy writings?

If it works and is useful I want it. I do not care where it comes from.
There are many Amiga only concepts (sliding screens) which are now in OS X, should they have rejected them because "oh no it's an AmigaOS similarity"?
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Old 19 February 2015, 03:12   #43
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Simple! If you want Linux or Mac, use Linux or Mac.
The Amiga OS was loosely based on UNIX anyway, and has similar command line functions.
The Amiga had a dock way before the Mac did.
OSX and Linux does not equal all good and modern, neither does Windows.
I use Linux myself, and Windows up to 7, (anything after 7 is not worth using). Linux can be a fine OS for some things, as long as you don't update it once installed and running fine. For example, my CCTV system is running XUbuntu and Zoneminder, it was a real pain to set up and took 2 days to get it working as it should. Last weekend there was updates and I took the plunge and installed them, BAD MISTAKE, although the OS booted it threw errors out about nonsensical things and Zoneminder failed to start. I eventually got things sorted after half a day spent replacing CORE libraries and Zoneminder itself with older versions. Very modern and versatile, I must say!
I wouldn't want ANY of that in AmigaOS thank you very much, I just like to turn on my Amiga and use it without any faffing about.
As for holy writings, WTF are you on about? The Amiga's OS has always done fine just the way it is, why do you think people still use it today?
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Old 19 February 2015, 22:09   #44
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well at the end everybody know that the real good soluition is rewrite the OS with MP RT and 64/128/whatever bit in mind and sandbox the old amiga stuff, but is not gonna happen both for money,time,marketshare and manpower constraints [and a good amount of "will no more be amiga" folks], so a side shorter term solution is to skin or "wrap" an existing *ix like osX did and ARIX si trying to do a la amithlon...

Last edited by saimon69; 19 February 2015 at 22:10. Reason: punctualization
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Old 21 February 2015, 16:29   #45
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The Amiga had a dock way before the Mac did.

This is the kind of imaginary wet dream that drives Amiga zealotry to infinity and beyond.

If you are referring to those buttons you could add to the system below(was it Tool Manager?): That was and add-on, not system included, and it was based on functionality included on NeXT Step which, oh the irony, was partly the basis for OSX.
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Old 21 February 2015, 19:01   #46
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Simple! If you want Linux or Mac, use Linux or Mac.
The Amiga OS was loosely based on UNIX anyway, and has similar command line functions.
Where did I say I wanted Linux or Mac? I talked specifically about features not the whole OS.

So to make it clear: if a feature from X or Y is: good and useful, working, has no bugs or these bugs can be fixed, makes users life simpler and less tedious. Should we reject it because it did not originate in the Amiga ecosystem?

That's the question I asked and you did not answer. It has nothing to do with wanting Linux or Mac.

This is what I meant by "holy writings". What criteria are you considering for rejecting or accepting such a feature from another OS? If practicality, ease of use, comfort, etc. do not enter into consideration all that's left is the "Amiga" dogma.

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The Amiga's OS has always done fine just the way it is, why do you think people still use it today?
If by fine you mean the companies who sell it are going bankrupt then I guess yes, it's doing fine.

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This is the kind of imaginary wet dream that drives Amiga zealotry to infinity and beyond.

If you are referring to those buttons you could add to the system below(was it Tool Manager?): That was and add-on, not system included, and it was based on functionality included on NeXT Step which, oh the irony, was partly the basis for OSX.
Thanks for pointing it out Akira.
I tend to blur NextStep and OS X into one, OS X is just what NextStep evolved into when it was made exclusive to Macs in my view.

And it's a good example of OS transition btw: the original System 9 of the Mac was outdated, slow, buggy, not multitasking, with horrendous limitations imposed on programmers and they transitioned into OS X (X = 10, for System 10) which was actually a completely different OS, a NetBsd/Unix to be precise with temporary backward compatibility.
Only a minority of Mac users shed any tears when that happened because the result was infinitely better (albeit a bit slow at the beginning).

The same could happen to AmigaOS as far as I am concerned.
What I would want from a new machine however is backward hardware compatibility. A legacy Amiga on a chip on all new machines, now that would rock and cost about nothing.
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Old 21 February 2015, 19:16   #47
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And it's a good example of OS transition btw: the original System 9 of the Mac was outdated, slow, buggy, not multitasking, with horrendous limitations imposed on programmers and they transitioned into OS X (X = 10, for System 10) which was actually a completely different OS, a NetBsd/Unix to be precise with temporary backward compatibility.
It is actually a FreeBSD userland running on top of a Mach kernel. Of course both of them are bastardised so that they don't perform as well as they should. That OS is nothing more than a hack and I can't believe people pay thousands of dollars for an Apple when the OS runs just fine on a generic PC.
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Old 21 February 2015, 19:42   #48
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It is actually a FreeBSD userland running on top of a Mach kernel. Of course both of them are bastardised so that they don't perform as well as they should. That OS is nothing more than a hack and I can't believe people pay thousands of dollars for an Apple when the OS runs just fine on a generic PC.
Bullshit. Yes some things are from FreeBSD and yes there are Mach components. But the system isn't a Mach system, a FreeBSD (or BSD at all) or something "bastardised" - it is a certified Unix system with a lot of modern features.
"hack"? Nope... And anyone that can code can verify that themselves.
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Old 21 February 2015, 23:35   #49
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i run snow lepoard on my pc it runs great no difference to a real mac apart from more power and memory ohh and a better video card ,for about 1/3 of the price.
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Old 22 February 2015, 00:35   #50
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Originally Posted by Nekoniaow View Post

If by fine you mean the companies who sell it are going bankrupt then I guess yes, it's doing fine.
if you consider amiga dogma, none of these companies apply whether they survive or not, because they simply dont have amiga reference except they were verified in their claims on heritage, which they wont allow. so they are not. case solved.
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Old 22 February 2015, 20:25   #51
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What is under the hood of OSX is Darwin, and it is a BSD. Some specific releases of OSX has UNIX certification. A lot of userland tools evidently came from FreeBSD, yes. The KAME IP stack too shows "FreeBSD-isms".

https://opensource.apple.com/
http://www.puredarwin.org/
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Old 24 February 2015, 00:48   #52
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My personal take on the whole 'we need a new alternate AmigaOS thing' is that we don't and we won't get one even if we did.

The whole concept of an OS in the traditional AmigaOS sense is fast becoming obsolete!

Instead I'd like to focus on something more achievable...bug fixing and improving 68K OS 3.x so we could use it on our Classic hardware and emulators (as a hobby!).

A real-world example of what can be achieved is Peter K's excellent ICON library replacement

Ideally you'd take the old 68k assembler code and refactor it to plain C, this is needed because there aren't many of the old assembler guys around (this is what Hyperion did with the old 3.1 code to build OS4). After refactoring the code you'd open-source it so that the community could work together to improve it.

The other option would be to simply use AROS 68k and put the effort into making it run efficiently on real Classic hardware.

With the development of fast FPGA stand-alone boards and accelerators it looks like there is plenty of life left in 68k land

We could even back-port some of the features/improvements introduced into OS4 so it would't have been a wasted effort

Last edited by NovaCoder; 24 February 2015 at 07:45.
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Old 24 February 2015, 01:27   #53
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@NovaCoder

I have some Warp3D 68k improvements I want to make so if you want to help with the back ports, please let me know.
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Old 24 February 2015, 04:09   #54
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@NovaCoder

I have some Warp3D 68k improvements I want to make so if you want to help with the back ports, please let me know.
Hi,

I'm always happy to help out when I can but this is not my area...maybe someone else here can help with the back-port?
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Old 24 February 2015, 10:33   #55
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Was Nekoniaow banned just for the above post?
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Old 24 February 2015, 10:41   #56
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Originally Posted by NovaCoder View Post
Instead I'd like to focus on something more achievable...bug fixing and improving 68K OS 3.x so we could use it on our Classic hardware and emulators (as a hobby!).
Although you could also use it on PPC and ARM hardware as a hobby, but I agree. What most of us really care about is the classic hardware. That's why we are here.

Quote:
Ideally you'd take the old 68k assembler code and refactor it to plain C, this is needed because there aren't many of the old assembler guys around
I think there are still more than enough 68k experts available. It makes no sense to slow down parts of the OS which already existed in working assembler code before - when your target it the classic Amiga.

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After refactoring the code you'd open-source it so that the community could work together to improve it.
The idea is good, and always has been, but the reality is that even if we had AmigaOS open-sourced that there would be dozends of groups who had their own idea about the future of AmigaOS. The result would be much worse than it is now.

I could only imagine an open source organization in the form like the BSDs. There is the "board", a group of a few "core developers", which are democratically elected by all developers every year. The core will decide about the direction of the development.
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Old 24 February 2015, 11:05   #57
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I think there are still more than enough 68k experts available. It makes no sense to slow down parts of the OS which already existed in working assembler code before - when your target it the classic Amiga.
Much to my bemusement there are several people in my team at work who professionally develop m68k assembler. Not related to Amiga though. Perhaps I should learn their craft to develop for OS3.x
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Old 24 February 2015, 16:53   #58
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I could only imagine an open source organization in the form like the BSDs. There is the "board", a group of a few "core developers", which are democratically elected by all developers every year. The core will decide about the direction of the development.
Hear hear. Ever since Commodore went under, and the single authority on what goes in and what stays out disappeared, it's just been a bunch of people all trying to pull different ways. 21 years of squabbling now. Yay. :-)
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Old 24 February 2015, 17:09   #59
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"Amiga - Taking 'flogging a dead horse' to a whole new level since 1994"™
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Old 24 February 2015, 17:32   #60
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It's not dead, it still has faint pulse, it will survive
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