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Old 07 February 2015, 21:56   #21
vim
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You only need to find the fun part in what you try to do to be able to learn it. Get less time for it when older and have work and all but i do not think age matter that much.
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Old 07 February 2015, 21:59   #22
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I too have started reading and trying to learn assembler for the amiga, I am 37, I must agree that it hard going. I work in the emergency dept and assess diagnose and treat patients with acute life threatening emergencies, and to me that is easy and second nature, but have done this since I left school.

I learn best by watching, I would love to sit down with a experienced amiga programmer and ask question and get to grips with the basics, because even source code comments can be confusing.

Good luck, I'm going to persevere.

Cheers

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Old 07 February 2015, 22:05   #23
Galahad/FLT
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Its completely down to what you are receptive to. Some people just do not have the aptitude for programming no matter when they take it up.

Myself, i can program in assembly on various processors and pick it up quite quickly, but i loathe higher level languages like C++, Java, Pascal, and all of those types, i find it very difficult to get, and whilst modern high level langauages arent as restrictive as they used to be, i disliked them so intensely back then that its pretty much clouded my view where i just dont want to learn them.

You need to decide what it is you want to do, and more importantly on what.

Its too late in the day to be wasting time learning asm on Amiga, but learning C covers you on a wide variety of machines.
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Old 07 February 2015, 22:24   #24
Thorham
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If you want to code on the Amiga anything but assembly is a waste of time.
That's, of course, not true at all.
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Old 07 February 2015, 22:28   #25
Mrs Beanbag
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Its completely down to what you are receptive to. Some people just do not have the aptitude for programming no matter when they take it up.
i think it's more that some people have certain mental blocks to overcome. i have known people who are convinced they are no good at maths, or art, because of the way they were taught at school; that maths is just sums, and art is just drawing a bowl of fruit; and they failed because they questioned things and asked why things were so, and thought creatively.

Quote:
Myself, i can program in assembly on various processors and pick it up quite quickly, but i loathe higher level languages like C++, Java, Pascal
funnily enough, i love both 68k asm and C++, i know C++ gets a lot of stick from some people who think it's not abstract enough and don't even understand why such a thing as a pointer exists. I know it has its faults but not the faults its accused of. Those people seem able to program but they are quite unaware of how a computer works!

Java, however, can go and do one. It's a near-perfect language by some people's standards but ugh, don't get me started.
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i disliked them so intensely back then that its pretty much clouded my view where i just dont want to learn them.
Bingo!
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Old 07 February 2015, 23:38   #26
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after 20-25 years old the human brain get stuck with the basic knowledge you had before
i've picked up C, C++ (well okay, i "worked around" the object oriented stuff because i'm lazy and like arrays), half a dozen BASIC dialects like BlitzMax or Slang, PHP and Z80 assembly language all after my 35th birthday - in fact Z80 was after i turned forty.

And in my "day job" i've talked online and occasionally face to face with thirty- and forty-somethings as they've started with no previous experience and picked up 6502 or Z80 assembly language, both of which are significantly harder than picking up a high level language for the Amiga like AMOS, Blitz or C.

So no, as Mrs Beanbag says it's more about people putting their own mental roadblocks in place by telling themselves that they can't learn and, whilst some people will find that easier than others to do, it's not impossible. You need to understand logic, have okay maths skills (the simple stuff just needs addition and subtraction) and have that drive to do something.
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Old 08 February 2015, 01:24   #27
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Don't forget you got to have time to spend. Learning to program simply is 'just do it'. Once you are 'in the Zone' (no, not the file server) everything will come to your mind easily;-)
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Old 09 February 2015, 21:00   #28
Lonewolf10
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not quite... reverse psychology doesn't work on them, although i'm pretty sure they do get jealous



Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryB View Post
Right, so:
- PI isn't something you eat then?
- By this you mean re-reading the listing again you typed in from the magazine?
- So use of phrases like: "b@st@rd, b@st@rd, b@st@rd why isn't this f**ker working?" isn't being patient enough?
- It could be...
- That's one example... the number of times I've come across listings with typo's/errors...
- Hehe, exactly. Though after a few days of trying to debug the same code that is pretty close to what I'd say!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jackoland View Post
I learn best by watching, I would love to sit down with a experienced amiga programmer and ask question and get to grips with the basics, because even source code comments can be confusing.
Everyone is different. For me I have always been self taught - either from books/manuals or from studying (and playing with) other peoples code.
Being able to ask experienced coders for help is a bonus and comes in very useful at times
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Old 09 February 2015, 21:06   #29
Mrs Beanbag
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- So use of phrases like: "b@st@rd, b@st@rd, b@st@rd why isn't this f**ker working?" isn't being patient enough?
i'm not such a bad programmer myself and i use this line all the time!

and i don't just mean when i'm writing in Perl!
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Old 09 February 2015, 21:39   #30
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For those of us 40+ (possibly a few years younger) programming was something you did on computers because there was naff all else to do if you didn't fancy loading up a game. It really was the low-hanging fruit - at switch-on, you had a BASIC interpreter ready to go, or you could wait for 5 mins+ for a game to load.

If you couldn't be bothered, you pratted around in BASIC and soaked it up that way.

It still required a certain kind of mind, but that simple fact led a lot of kids to learn to code. Nowadays it's harder - the languages are more complex (for the most part) and there's additional effort needed to find one, install it, run it, test it, decide you don't like it... etc, etc.

D.
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Old 09 February 2015, 22:12   #31
Mrs Beanbag
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well these days everyone has ready access to a Javascript interpreter, the difference is it doesn't announce itself to you, it hides behind the scenes so to use it you have to know something already.

Also Javascript is a bit of a horror of a language.

Of course the Amiga never had basic in ROM, either. When you turned it on, you just got the hand holding the disk on the screen and a slow clicking. That really confused me at first.
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Old 09 February 2015, 22:52   #32
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Of course the Amiga never had basic in ROM, either. When you turned it on, you just got the hand holding the disk on the screen and a slow clicking. That really confused me at first.
How could you get the C64 showing that kind of graphics or even loading a disk? A blue screen with a prompt is even less than a picture with a disk (and an OS lurking in the background), imho.
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Old 09 February 2015, 23:01   #33
Mrs Beanbag
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a blue screen with a prompt would at least actually do something though... i could no longer to my old trick on display computers in shops:
Code:
10 print "hello world!"
20 goto 10
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Old 10 February 2015, 08:08   #34
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a blue screen with a prompt would at least actually do something though... i could no longer to my old trick on display computers in shops:
Code:
10 print "hello world!"
20 goto 10
Maybe not but you can do a much better trick now - delete a large portion of the registry making the computer completely unusable.

Call me immature but at 32 I still get a good laugh out of it. Serves them right for running such an insecure piece of shit of an OS.
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Old 10 February 2015, 10:35   #35
LuMan
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It's an interesting question - with a swathe of interesting responses, too!

In real terms, the answer is 'no - you're never too old to learn.' The only show-stopper will be your own perception of whether or not you 'think' you're too old.

My advice would be go for it. Try ASM. Really - it's possibly the hardest approach, but I would say also the most rewarding when a seemingly unintelligible screen-load of mnemonics and numbers suddenly produces a raster line, or an empty screen, or an empty screen with a dot in it!

The internet and emulators are your friends. So many resources and tools nowadays. Try this one on YouTube. It's brilliant:

[ Show youtube player ]

If you really want to start programming, then start. Take your time and redo lessons as many times as you need. If your goal is to just write something (as opposed to be a hardcore 68k code master) then go at your own pace and feel free to share anything you do here. Regardless of how naff you think it is.

Best of luck to you. I hope you decide to take the plunge and I hope you find it as rewarding as I found it... And I started again at 46.
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Old 10 February 2015, 10:55   #36
demolition
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I agree with many others here that you are never too old to learn something new. The difference is that when you are young, you have fewer distractions (i.e. your mom telling you dinner is ready, and then later telling you to go to bed ) and can focus a lot more on the task at hand.

You have to ask yourself what you want to achieve and what your interests are as this will determine which language to go for. I like to learn the low level functionality of machines such as the C64 and Amiga, so Assembler is the natural choice as this brings me close to the hardware.

I also do software on the PC but here I would never consider doing Assembler by hand. I did back in the 90s a bit, but today it is too complicated for anyone I'd say. Here I prefer C# for GUI stuff and tools and C++ if I need performance. With C++ it is possible to lose touch of the execution speed if you use high level classes, but if you avoid that, you can learn to write C++ code in the correct way so it maps into very efficient ASM code. I sometimes check the ASM output from the compiler to check if it has produced reasonable code. While I may not write SSE2 Asm from scratch, it is still good to learn a bit about it so you can check the compiler output.

Mythbusters tested a while ago whether it was hard to learn an old dog new tricks. And no it wasn't. Actually it was surprisingly easy. It is all about focusing on the task and it can be done.
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Old 10 February 2015, 11:02   #37
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Hi,

Not necessarily related to the Amiga, but...

Can you be 'too old' to start to learn how to program?

I see a lot of people/kids programming stuff apps, Amiga games, utilities and such. I used to mess around with trying to learn coding, and even made a little program that edited Settlers 2 save games once, when I was in my teens/early 20's. Now [being almost 35], I look at sample code and I just cant seem to take it in!? Maybe I'm getting old, or simply.... too dumb?

Thoughts?
Nope, a family friend went back to college and learnt to program at 80 years old. Came top of his class too.

Never too old to do something new.
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Old 10 February 2015, 14:56   #38
gimbal
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Nope, a family friend went back to college and learnt to program at 80 years old.
That's amazing. On the other hand - when you're older your brain is far less chaotic and chaos is the enemy of all programmers. In that respect I can understand this, but this is then an 80 year old with a brain that is not suffering from any kind of illness which is in itself already an achievement.

On both accounts respect to this person.
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Old 10 February 2015, 17:34   #39
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Hi,

I guess you need to have a good project in mind too, that will give you the motivation to learn and produce the final product.

I find it amazing how programs like WinUAE are created - basically transferring "hardware" to a software based system. I think someone raised the point of programming in that its kind of like art - you can be super good at it, average, and I think maybe some people just cant grasp it at all (maybe they are lazy in mind!?). I spoke to a guy I know, he works for the British government as a programmer and he says he just see's numbers and code in this head.
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Old 11 February 2015, 08:15   #40
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That's, of course, not true at all.
I guess it's just a HUGE coincedence that the best software on the Amiga is done in asm then.
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