English Amiga Board Amiga Lore


Go Back   English Amiga Board > Support > support.WinUAE

 
 
Thread Tools
Old 02 January 2015, 03:18   #1
Supamax
Da Digger :)

Supamax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Monza, Italy
Posts: 2,463
Sound filter information and other documentation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
Which audio filter mode? (none, sinc, anti and so on..)
Hi Toni, sorry if I asked this before (I don't remember): is there somewhere a full WinUAE helpfile/manual thoroughly explaining all the program aspects and parameters?

Just as an example, I don't have a clue about the differences between audio filter sic vs. anti vs. ... etc. etc.

Sorry for this really noob answer , but this can hopefully be useful to someone else here .

P.S. this is almost surely the wrong thread, sorry again
Supamax is offline  
AdSense AdSense  
Old 02 January 2015, 10:39   #2
B14ck W01f
m68k all the way
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Koalaland
Posts: 473
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supamax View Post
Hi Toni, sorry if I asked this before (I don't remember): is there somewhere a full WinUAE helpfile/manual thoroughly explaining all the program aspects and parameters?
It would be nice if he decides to add those yellow tooltips in the Adv. Chipset section.
B14ck W01f is offline  
Old 02 January 2015, 10:43   #3
Toni Wilen
WinUAE developer
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland
Age: 42
Posts: 19,561
Tooltips won't help if you don't know Amiga hardware details and if you know hardware details you already know what it means

EDIT: Seriously, Chipset Extra is enough for 98% of use cases, only in very rare experimental cases you need to adjust advanced chipset.

EDIT2: Just ask if you need more information. Most of the advanced chipset checkboxes are really low level and can't be explained shortly.

Last edited by Toni Wilen; 02 January 2015 at 11:10.
Toni Wilen is offline  
Old 02 January 2015, 11:32   #4
Vot
Registered User

 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 646
Quote:
Originally Posted by Supamax View Post
Hi Toni, sorry if I asked this before (I don't remember): is there somewhere a full WinUAE helpfile/manual thoroughly explaining all the program aspects and parameters?

Just as an example, I don't have a clue about the differences between audio filter sic vs. anti vs. ... etc. etc.

Sorry for this really noob answer , but this can hopefully be useful to someone else here .

P.S. this is almost surely the wrong thread, sorry again

Why don't one of you offer to write the full documentation for him after some research and his guidance/input. Im sure he would rather be doing something else like watch paint dry than write it.
Vot is offline  
Old 02 January 2015, 12:49   #5
tero
Registered User

tero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: M'Gladbach
Age: 40
Posts: 449
there is this online help http://www.vware.at/winuaehelp/
it covers winuae 2.4.0, but is updated every once in a while. It's pretty basic, no detailed explanations about filters etc.
tero is offline  
Old 06 January 2015, 20:38   #6
Nut
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Posts: 36
In short - those are different methods on how to perform interpolation of sound. Interpolation is the process of calculating a value in-between two samples of audio. Let's say interpolation point is 0.452 (a value between 0-1), you would calculate linear interpolation of two samples : (B-A)*0.452+A, which is a value somewhere between A and B. This is to smooth the sound and make the resulting soundmix to have better quality (than without interpolation). Mixing audio without interpolation is quite horrible idea, but hey... Amiga does NOT HAVE interpolation (!!), so just forget about it. Set it to disabled. You should never use interpolation for 8bit module music or the Amiga for that matter. WE DID NOT HAVE IT.

Details on Anti, Sinc, RH, Crux could be Googled. I'm not familiar with these but I think Sinc is the best and slowest method (Renoise tracker has this as option).
Nut is offline  
Old 06 January 2015, 21:37   #7
Supamax
Da Digger :)

Supamax's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Monza, Italy
Posts: 2,463
Uh, nice, someone (a moderator?) thought my question was interesting and opened a new thread for me . Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vot View Post
Why don't one of you offer to write the full documentation for him after some research and his guidance/input. Im sure he would rather be doing something else like watch paint dry than write it.
Yes, I thought about doing/starting it myself (when I have time...). I fear it involves some very detailed knowledge, as Toni wrote (parameters dealing with very low level aspects).
And the list of added features during the years is so incredibly long... WinUAE is a fantastic emulator!

Last edited by Supamax; 06 January 2015 at 21:42.
Supamax is offline  
Old 07 January 2015, 01:37   #8
Michael Sykes
WinUAE end user

Michael Sykes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Bremen
Age: 38
Posts: 623
Damm thats one complex matter.
And thats only like 0.02% of WinUAE.
Theory of sampling and interpolation alone can fill up some pages even if you take only some important facts to show the reder how it works...
http://eeweb.poly.edu/~yao/EE3414/sampling.pdf

Good luck in writing a full detailed documentation.
I would love to read something like that.And it would be a great benefit for people starting to emulate the amiga after years of abstinence.Time kills a lot of details in the human memory.
And getting some background answers about stuff you didn't even know you had a question about, is allways interesting.

PS: isn't the closest thing to original paula to disable the interpolation?
Michael Sykes is offline  
Old 07 January 2015, 08:33   #9
Toni Wilen
WinUAE developer
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Hämeenlinna/Finland
Age: 42
Posts: 19,561
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Sykes View Post
PS: isn't the closest thing to original paula to disable the interpolation?
Yes and no. Paula does not need to mix all 4 channels to single output bitrate.

https://bel.fi/alankila/modguide/interpolate.txt (sinc implementation)
Toni Wilen is offline  
Old 07 January 2015, 10:47   #10
Pecosbil
Registered User

 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Rovaniemi, Finland
Posts: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Sykes View Post
PS: isn't the closest thing to original paula to disable the interpolation?
No, AFAIK Paula can playback samples with independent frequencies in all it's channels (like hw synthesizers do) - so, no need for interpolation.

But, if you like to achieve simlair quality with mixing (like UAE for example), you'd have to use interpolation.
Pecosbil is offline  
Old 07 January 2015, 12:03   #11
Michael Sykes
WinUAE end user

Michael Sykes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Bremen
Age: 38
Posts: 623
Thanks Toni, that's what I mean with "stuff you didn't even know you had a question about".

Now I understand for example why the DeliTracker 14bit player has 60000Hz mixing frequency. 14.5kHz x 4 = 58000Hz makes sense.
Even if you're just the driver and not the mechanic, it can't be wrong to know how the internals of the engine work.

So from what I understand there can still be some arifacts even with filters enabled.Not as much as without.And with filters is's less noisy but it will lose some "detail" in the worst case. Seems it's really analog to the D3D filters for graphics.

Quote:
Yes and no. Paula does not need to mix all 4 channels to single output bitrate.
If the Amigas max output without aliasing is 14.5 kHz and we use 48000Hz for the WinUAE output, wouldnt that come really close to the original even without filters?
Would the soundquality improve if you enable the filter at, lets say, 96kHz?

Not that I would be able to hear the difference, just out of curiosity...
Michael Sykes is offline  
Old 07 January 2015, 12:15   #12
Pecosbil
Registered User

 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Rovaniemi, Finland
Posts: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pecosbil View Post
No, AFAIK Paula can playback samples with independent frequencies in all it's channels (like hw synthesizers do) - so, no need for interpolation.
Ok, after reading Antti Lankila's documentation (that Tony linked above), I must admit being wrong about how Paula produces sound. But, nevertheless, it doesn't have audible aliasing effects with sample rates beyond 28kHz (and probably up to 56kHz with RTG card).

So, unless something like this BLEP resampling is added to WinUAE (like this Protracker clone), you'll need to use some sort of interpolation to avoid aliasing effects.

Last edited by Pecosbil; 07 January 2015 at 12:22.
Pecosbil is offline  
Old 09 January 2015, 04:51   #13
Vot
Registered User

 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 646
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toni Wilen View Post
Yes and no. Paula does not need to mix all 4 channels to single output bitrate.



https://bel.fi/alankila/modguide/interpolate.txt (sinc implementation)

I must admit maybe my assumption of how winuae produced its audio output was wrong. I thought it used no interpolation and mixed at the paula output rate then resampled (using whatever method chosen to the host systems output rate).
Vot is offline  
AdSense AdSense  
 


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Information about filter EMI "TDK 682" Franchute13 support.Hardware 10 21 January 2015 12:23
Suggestion- Better Documentation for Sound Emulation shaf support.WinUAE 5 27 August 2012 19:46
hqx4 filter sound lagging glue support.WinUAE 2 31 December 2010 09:00
Sound is muffled after boot until change of settings - sound filter emulation issue? rsn8887 support.WinUAE 1 30 May 2010 20:44
Req. Sound Conversion Information exoticaga request.Modules 0 15 September 2007 17:25

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 07:49.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Page generated in 0.18206 seconds with 11 queries