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Old 27 August 2014, 20:48   #1
saimon69
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[request] Not exactly an ST port.... Black Tiger Redux?

Yesterday i stumbled again on Black Tiger longplay video.
Never been so disappointed by a US Gold port like that one: graphics was there, playability was there, but the scrooollll.... and the slow speed

Sometimes i wonder if is possible for experienced coders redo the scrolling routines using the blitter rather than those ugly 8x8 push inherited from ST, plus adding in-game music...

Last edited by saimon69; 27 August 2014 at 20:48. Reason: typo
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Old 27 August 2014, 21:01   #2
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It can be worse http://hol.abime.net/5002 http://hol.abime.net/4916
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Old 27 August 2014, 22:10   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saimon69 View Post
Yesterday i stumbled again on Black Tiger longplay video.
Never been so disappointed by a US Gold port like that one: graphics was there, playability was there, but the scrooollll.... and the slow speed

Sometimes i wonder if is possible for experienced coders redo the scrolling routines using the blitter rather than those ugly 8x8 push inherited from ST, plus adding in-game music...
Of course that is possible but required a lot of work, I think. Today I think about Black Tiger and other very very bad ports on Amiga and would be nice to pimp up some titles. Some time ago I started with Rolling Thunder and when I speed up title of this game from 5 fps or something to 50 fps then I was so disappointed, because title looks so ridiculous. Actually I'm working on some conversions but I have some Amiga game names on my pimp up list and who knows what will be next
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Old 27 August 2014, 22:25   #4
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Actually there is really one good game which needs such an update. Ruff'n Tumble. Should be doable on AGA (with a lot of work), right? btw: Black Tiger Amiga would need more work. The joystick control is nearly unusable, compared to the good arcade version.

Last edited by Retro-Nerd; 27 August 2014 at 22:39.
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Old 28 August 2014, 12:10   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retro-Nerd View Post
Actually there is really one good game which needs such an update. Ruff'n Tumble. Should be doable on AGA (with a lot of work), right? btw: Black Tiger Amiga would need more work. The joystick control is nearly unusable, compared to the good arcade version.
Yeah, the code is directly lifted from the ST one, in the most horrible way.
They have just replaced the I/O routines by ahem.... amiga ones, and there it was

I'm sure ADRdesign could help on the music

Unfortunately, it seems that even reworking a not too big game is a lot of work....
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Old 28 August 2014, 17:19   #6
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Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post
Yeah, the code is directly lifted from the ST one, in the most horrible way.
They have just replaced the I/O routines by ahem.... amiga ones, and there it was

I'm sure ADRdesign could help on the music

Unfortunately, it seems that even reworking a not too big game is a lot of work....
Now I'm really curious how Amiga version of Black Tiger is coded ...
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Old 28 August 2014, 19:14   #7
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i did a compare quite a while ago, the main difference is that amiga BT files are hidden on the disk, but concretly, something like 90-95% of the code is the same on both machines.
Only the screen, I/O, disk accesses differs.

Last edited by dlfrsilver; 28 August 2014 at 23:49.
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Old 28 August 2014, 21:29   #8
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sometimes i think would not be bad to create a bounty system similar to the AROS one for pimping bad games and motivate porters
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Old 28 August 2014, 22:51   #9
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some info on the original arcade:
http://www.thepixelpump.com/blacktiger/ports.php
soundtrack as youtube movie:
[ Show youtube player ] [if i have time can work a bit on it]
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Old 28 August 2014, 23:27   #10
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i can give all you need (GFX ripped to perfect from the coin-op, as well as the musics. ADR design has made an awesome job on Final Fight AGA music from my rips.)

Maybe you can do something there Saimon ?

EDIT : From the Start, the coin-op use 1024 colors palette (4x256 colors, or 4x 16 palettes of 16 colors).

it's a 256 colors game (PC like palette). each monster has its own palette, so multiply their number x 16 colors.

Backgrounds use exemple on level one 87 colors alone. 87 it's 4x16(64) + almost 2x16 color palettes.

To get the best results, all the sprites for a level must be mixed with the background in order to get a standard computer
palette on 256 colors.

Next : The sprite datas must be sipped from the Coin-op Code program.

Last edited by dlfrsilver; 30 August 2014 at 15:44.
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Old 28 August 2014, 23:39   #11
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pity am not a coder, not an assembly one at least; i can mod the soundtrack though - however with this thread my intention was to provide some bored coder food for thought...

Last edited by saimon69; 29 August 2014 at 00:23.
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Old 28 August 2014, 23:57   #12
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It's easy to get via mame the arcade rom code in binary or disassembled. The main problem is that it's Z80 code, not 68000 code.

EDIT1: checked the tiles of the amiga version, it's crap Atari ST PC1 files made under degas elite in 16 colors. Typical ST port shit.

EDIT2 : The coin-op z80 has 64kb of maincode, and 256kb of DATA for sprites and backgrounds (7 banks)

Last edited by dlfrsilver; 29 August 2014 at 02:46.
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Old 29 August 2014, 17:17   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post
It's easy to get via mame the arcade rom code in binary or disassembled. The main problem is that it's Z80 code, not 68000 code.

EDIT1: checked the tiles of the amiga version, it's crap Atari ST PC1 files made under degas elite in 16 colors. Typical ST port shit.

EDIT2 : The coin-op z80 has 64kb of maincode, and 256kb of DATA for sprites and backgrounds (7 banks)
There is a Z80 converter to 68000 z80 conv. But I don't know how to use this tool.
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Old 29 August 2014, 18:10   #14
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I tried before to compile these Pascal codes without success. These tools are from 1982, todays compilers through out too many error. We need the original compiler, a Pascal expert or port those sources into C.

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Old 29 August 2014, 18:17   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dlfrsilver View Post
EDIT1: checked the tiles of the amiga version, it's crap Atari ST PC1 files made under degas elite in 16 colors. Typical ST port shit.
I like how you conclude that just because something uses 16 color Atari ST degas pictures it is "typical ST port shit"... It's not like the graphics data can easily be converted at runtime to Amiga format...

Anyway, the game is way too slow to be enjoyable, I doubt the ST version is much faster. The binaries are still in Atari ST format and I am checking the code, not sure I can be bothered to do anything with that game though.
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Old 29 August 2014, 18:22   #16
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Satan http://hol.abime.net/1838/screenshot is similar and slightly better for me.
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Old 29 August 2014, 20:08   #17
saimon69
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What i wonder however is why that game run at so crappy 6FPS? OK, st port is not that better, but i wonder if is due to "processor fatigue" or bad programming... maybe the original team DID use the z80->68k tool to convert the code and is not optimized
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Old 29 August 2014, 20:13   #18
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@dfrsilver
Without using AGA i think with 32 colors (16 fixed 16 changing for each level) and 25fps the graphic conversion might come out good enough
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Old 29 August 2014, 20:26   #19
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Maybe it's possible to use Backbone to redone this game?
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Old 29 August 2014, 20:56   #20
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Taking out the climbing spines probably, else i dunno
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