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Old 04 July 2014, 20:09   #81
Megol
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leffmann View Post
I think banning Gunnar was unfair, and it seems to me, TCD, that you just dislike Gunnar and have been sitting ready at the guns, looking for any excuse to ban him. I see nothing in the rules about mild swearing and expressing your disappointment.

When I read through the threads Gunnar has been posting in, I see TCD, Britelite, Meynaf, Stingray etc. antagonizing him, when all he's trying is to do something good for Amiga. No wonder he says the community has a shitty attitude. I think the Amiga community is shitty sometimes too, will I be getting a ban now as well?

The only admin I would trust to use his full judgement and discretion before moderating or banning is Cody Jarrett, while the other admins seem to be just looking for opportunities to assert themselves from time to time. This kind of aggressive moderation only serves to make users have to look over their shoulders when posting, and it's damaging to the forum.
IMHO it is expected to follow the forum rules and when politely notified one should calm down one does just that. Gunnar did the exact opposite...
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Old 04 July 2014, 20:12   #82
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I agree with Leffmann that banning Gunnar was unfair. A man presenting his work/idea is in a infinitely more delicate position than those attacking him. So it's no wonder he may have lashed out.

Perhaps a 24hr lockdown of the thread would have been more appropriate, for everyone to cool their heads a bit.
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Old 04 July 2014, 20:44   #83
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Originally Posted by Lord Aga View Post
I agree with Leffmann that banning Gunnar was unfair. A man presenting his work/idea is in a infinitely more delicate position than those attacking him. So it's no wonder he may have lashed out.

Perhaps a 24hr lockdown of the thread would have been more appropriate, for everyone to cool their heads a bit.
Just wondering if this was simply something taken out of context as I assume that English is not Gunnar's first language???

Maybe the term 'shitty' in the way we understand it was not intended to sound as strong as it's original intention? Maybe the term 'fickle' to describe us Amiga fans (in all flavours) would have been better
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Old 04 July 2014, 20:53   #84
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I don't really understand Gunnar's ban. A bit extreme in my opinion.
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Old 04 July 2014, 20:59   #85
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Guys, TCd's the moderator, he made the decision, let's respect that decision.
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Old 04 July 2014, 21:07   #86
Lord Aga
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That's cool. But we can voice our opinions, as long as they are polite and reasonable.
It may prevent similar situations in the future.
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Old 04 July 2014, 21:11   #87
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatboy View Post
Just wondering if this was simply something taken out of context as I assume that English is not Gunnar's first language???

Maybe the term 'shitty' in the way we understand it was not intended to sound as strong as it's original intention? Maybe the term 'fickle' to describe us Amiga fans (in all flavours) would have been better
I have to note that Gunnar have a documented tendency to aggressively promoting his ideas, look at natami.net and elsewhere for evidence of that.
If he really thinks what he wrote then he should just stop posting here, right?
If not he had a chance to cool down and retract/clarify the post.

This is getting OT and I don't want to be banned for that so it'll be the last post from me.
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Old 04 July 2014, 23:11   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robinsonb5 View Post
Because it's a fun and interesting project, of course!
Yup. And its not a pc.

Quite an over reaction to ban Gunnar indeed. It was one emotional comment based on wawas incorrect use of english.

Last edited by TCD; 04 July 2014 at 23:20. Reason: Back-to-back posts merged
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Old 04 July 2014, 23:26   #89
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Just got a mail where I was informed that Gunnar is banned from this forum.
I must say few things.
The thing you said that he aggressively promoting his ideas, you should think twice about that statement. He is just pointing about the things no one notices.
When I was saying all of the "nasty" things about some Amiga community members everyone attacked me. And again I will say that I have never seen community like this, ever, and I will say again "AMIGA COMMUNITY IS JUST TALK TALK COMMUNITY".

Here are the facts from inside apollo team:
I told Gunnar that soon enough he will find out that no matter what he build he will be stopped in number of ways from those who are thinking that they must decide in what direction Amiga should go. He didn't trusted me.
From the moment we build IRC channel lot of work is done. Behind the scene, every single day we was there for number of hours working.


About Gunnar: My privilege was and is to work with him, to learn from him. Maybe you are not aware about his HUGE knowledge. And all of us should be happy to have him interested into Amiga at all. His motivation is amazing. In fact only person who can bring back Amiga into life is Gunnar, no one else. He always had a patience for me and I don't know him as a person some of you are trying to describe.

So this is again situation for me where I am thinking again about conspiracy theories about the group of ppl who want's to see amiga stays like it is now.

Just like someone waited for first "mistake" from him to do something like this. Instead to having all of us supporting the project, united, we catch each word from someone to punish him. This is the last chance and yet you place a ban to someone who writes amazing facts here on this forum and those facts can be used by future developers.

I m out, again making quote from my text 3 years ago: "That is the main reason why Amiga is going nowhere".
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Old 04 July 2014, 23:40   #90
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being a forum moderator is more like being a sheriff in the wild west than a police officer in a stable democracy i guess, the rules are really more like guidelines, applied with discretion and a bit of common sense. Some people are going to agree with any decision, and some people not. So it goes.

I'm not going to start blaming anyone or criticising because i can kind of see the point of both sides. Gunnar is doing something that is possibly the best thing ever done in the Amiga scene and all he gets from some people is doubt and dismissal, which must be very frustrating, then he snaps and he's the bad guy, well maybe he didn't react in the best possible way because I think he is very passionate and tends to get excited about whatever he is doing.

i'm just a little sad this happened, i don't pretend to know the best way to deal with it i only hope we don't scare him off the forum for good.

of course all those people who were waiting for Natami or FPGA Arcade or whatever are also getting quite frustrated as well, it's been a rocky road but it looks to me like it's starting to come together now. FPGAs are better and cheaper and more readily available than they used to be.
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Old 05 July 2014, 01:02   #91
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This is a diverse community, it only appears "shitty" when you fail to realize that.

Ranging from dedicated classic hardware fans who use their 68k Amiga daily (I'm one of them), through PPC (X1000, Sam, Mac mini, etc.) power users on MorphOS or AmigaOS 4, Minimig and similar FPGA based projects, retro gamers using emulators, Aros developers, demo coders, all the way to those who just want an Amiga case for their PC.

I think it's safe to say all these factions love Amiga, in one way or another, some feel at home in any camp, others don't.

However, the love for Amiga doesn't mean all of us are eagerly waiting for the next Amiga hardware iteration that will take the world by storm, many of us tossed that idea when Commodore went belly up. However, we enjoy Amiga anyway.


Gunnar,

So you coded a new fancy 68k state machine you want to sell? Great, you came to the right place. Just remember you are selling something, don't shove it down our throats by trying to win arguments in the forum, instead, show us what you got, sell a few, if it's good there will be plenty of buyers.

You want our respect, earn it. As you probably figured out by now, some of us code VHDL/Verilog, know electronics, have been reverse engineering both hardware and software in any shape or form since the dawn of the integrated circuit. There are several 68k assembler professors in this forum as well (counting the years of experience they are way past doctor degree, hehe), they continue to impress daily with their knowledge, making me feel humble and eager to learn new stuff. Then we have the Amiga collectors who owns pretty much every model there is and just can't wait find that next missing piece of history, knowing more than Commodore ever did about every little revision there ever was, documenting, restoring, constantly trading, and helping out. Same goes for the ones involved with Amiga games/software, development, preservation, cracking, WHDLoad, website contributors, gaming competitions, customizing, and it just goes on and on.


TCD,

Thanks for standing up for us, I feel less shitty now. Still, I think Leffmann has a point about the ban.

Last edited by modrobert; 05 July 2014 at 08:19. Reason: Forgot stuff, still looks incomplete, oh well.
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Old 05 July 2014, 01:04   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by modrobert View Post
TCD,

Thanks for standing up for us, I feel less shitty now. Still, I think Leffmann has a point about the ban.
Gunnar just has a few extra days to work on his core. All fingers crossed it'll work out. If he doesn't hold a grudge and remembers to word things more carefully, I don't see any problem in the future
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Old 05 July 2014, 01:15   #93
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Ban was a little bit harsh I think....time off to watch World Cup though!
Gunnar best of luck with this, great potential by the sounds of it.
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Old 05 July 2014, 03:44   #94
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i had a brief mail exchange with gunnar this afternoon and i think its fine. id prefer if the ban was lifted, but on the other hand perhaps there is really too much talking and distraction. we might as well wait for further results and while that think about what could be helped with. for me its still aros68k for the time being.
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Old 05 July 2014, 04:01   #95
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it seems a bit unfair, but then I remember what A.org was like with no moderation..so I'm not sure. no Doom master here, that's for sure.
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Old 05 July 2014, 05:30   #96
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Another thing to remember is that many Amiga hardware and software projects either get canceled or fail to match the initial promises.

As frustrating as this is for some of us, you just have to accept the fact that enthusiasm is no match for all the other stuff that gets in the way of a successful delivery.

Last edited by NovaCoder; 05 July 2014 at 15:03.
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Old 05 July 2014, 11:48   #97
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The Amiga and its alarmingly systemic propensity to shoot themselves in the foot, an anthology in the history of computing.
This anathema should apply to all those involved in this unfortunate story. It is a question of fairness.
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Old 05 July 2014, 12:17   #98
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I couldn't agree more.

And this thread has descended into nothing more than a school-ground argument. You would have thought that by 2014 most amiga enthusiasts from the 80s and 90s would have grown up a bit

Quote:
Originally Posted by fatboy View Post
Thought I was on Amiga.org after reading this thread

As a casual user of classic Amiga hardware (A1200) I am a 'potential' customer of any suitable hardware that will replace my ageing (but still working machine) when the time comes.

I don't want to pay silly money for high-end' systems, just something that will give an authentic Amiga experience with some modern tweaks (faster/Bigger HD access, faster CPU and standard VGA/HDMI O/P).

I'd pay between 100 - 200 for a bare bones system (something like the MiniMIG).

Am I totally off my trolly asking for this type of product for that price in 2014?
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Old 05 July 2014, 15:19   #99
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It started to go downhill after OP decided to piss against the wind.
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Old 05 July 2014, 16:27   #100
skan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by majsta View Post
...
In fact only person who can bring back Amiga into life is Gunnar, no one else.
...
Joke of the century.

Quote:
Originally Posted by majsta View Post
...
So this is again situation for me where I am thinking again about conspiracy theories about the group of ppl who want's to see amiga stays like it is now.
...
Quick! Wear your tinfoil hat!
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