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Old 04 July 2014, 13:17   #61
Mrs Beanbag
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well i think Amiga will always be a niche, but it doesn't have to be such an expensive niche.

there is really no need to accuse people of faking things just because they haven't finished yet.
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Old 04 July 2014, 13:39   #62
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This conversation is getting close to the natami forum style fast

Gunnar, I don't think the Amiga community is a shitty one, I really don't, but as you probably realize we have been (over-)promised a lot of things a lot of times, so I'd say it is understandable that people don't trust blindly anymore. I'd say it's best not to promise too much and just deliver.

It's best for us to focus on realistic goals: A fast 020-style CPU with AGA core, RTG, ethernet and maybe an AHI sound card. We can make all the 20000000MHz 060 CPUs, AGA++++++ stuff once we have the basics going. Please, focus on the CPU core, the rest will hopefully be picked up by somebody else. I would also like to ask you to work on near 100% - compatible M68K core, otherwise it is no use for me in an Amiga / minimig, irregardless of how fast it is, period. Personally, I don't really want some kind of next-gen Amiga with super CPU, 3D capabilities and whatnot, I'm perfectly fine with an Amiga as it is, perhaps in a more affordable package and some added CPU speed

To get back on topic, yes the Sockit board is pretty good, I already ordered a very similar board, the DE1-SOC for some minimig experimentation. But there is already the Mist board, which is available *now*, and it is big enough for a nice 020 core + AGA, so if you ever opensource your CPU core, we have a board ready to test it on

Cheers!
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Old 04 July 2014, 13:44   #63
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Thought I was on Amiga.org after reading this thread

As a casual user of classic Amiga hardware (A1200) I am a 'potential' customer of any suitable hardware that will replace my ageing (but still working machine) when the time comes.

I don't want to pay silly money for high-end' systems, just something that will give an authentic Amiga experience with some modern tweaks (faster/Bigger HD access, faster CPU and standard VGA/HDMI O/P).

I'd pay between 100 - 200 for a bare bones system (something like the MiniMIG).

Am I totally off my trolly asking for this type of product for that price in 2014?
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Old 04 July 2014, 14:27   #64
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This conversation is getting close to the natami forum style fast
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Thought I was on Amiga.org after reading this thread
No worries, this is still EAB

A thread that starts with 'What do people think' always has the 'potential' to go way overboard, but you'd expect that the OP expects to get honest feedback if he starts a thread with these words. I agree that the fake accusation went too far. However Gunnar's reaction wasn't okay and he can always report posts. Let's hope that he'll be more level headed once he returns.
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Old 04 July 2014, 14:49   #65
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well i think Amiga will always be a niche, but it doesn't have to be such an expensive niche.
I like that, very true

We are already in a pretty good place, considering all that's happened in Amiga land over the years is a minor miracle that people are still using their Classics and posting on this board

I think the best thing for the Classic scene would be new hardware upgrades. That can cover things like scan-doublers, higher-speed HD controllers and (compatible) accelerators. The two most important things any new hardware needs is, ongoing manufacturer support (drivers and config tools) and a low price.

As the old Classic motherboards get too old (or too rare) it would be nice if you could buy a complete drop-in FPGA based replacement motherboard, but again..it has to be an affordable price (effectively a scaled-up MiniMig).

Another thing that would help the 'scene' would be if AROS 68k was developed to a stage where it was actually better (eg faster/less bugs/more features) that using OS 3.x

Last edited by NovaCoder; 04 July 2014 at 15:02.
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Old 04 July 2014, 14:50   #66
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just to put it straight i have never used the word "fake", however "forged" that i actually used might have been a wrong choice of words, as it actually meant to mean "artificial". as in, that the real advantages of the solution may only be proven when running actual amiga software.

that said im ready to apologize to gunnar for the misunderstanding and ensure that im supporting the project, and the technical choices outlined and while reserving my right to be skeptical i probably nevertheless would be ready to become an early adopter and tester if necessary.

what concerns "shitty community" comment it may not be the best way to react, but statements like that tend to go off in the heat of discussion and are difficult to back off. so since this is something im rater accustomed to, id lake to say that i dont feel offended, and would pledge that if gunnar was in fact restricted, to lift that measure.

as for trying to figure the overall consumer interest, it would be good to put up a sort of poll. the numbers might then be compared to the figures of active members. which result then might be approximated with the assumed population of community, which is rather difficult, i admit.
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Old 04 July 2014, 14:50   #67
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Sorry to say that... What have you contributed in recent years to the platform?

I do not share his choice of words but I understand his feelings because I felt the same a couple of times in the past, even thought about dropping everything and leaving again. A lot of people are not contributing anything and just talking and (worse) frustrating the few who try to do anything. And if you say "I am not a programmer" there is a lot of to do and document and be it "only" testing. So what is your contribution?
There you go again, with that condescending tone.

I am an user. Part of the wonderful Amiga community (especially EAB, which rocks so hard!), which has been recently berated.

You don't have to be a martyr to be part of it - nor a programmer, a hardware engineer or whatever. So no need to feel so self-entitled.
We are just hobbists. We do this because we like doing it. And without the users the Amiga community would be a ghost town.

That said, I'll go back to my enjoying the community without having you expecting me to contribute something before being able to simply express my thoughts - thank you very much.
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Old 04 July 2014, 14:57   #68
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Another thing that would help the 'scene' would be if AROS 68k was developed to a stage where it was actually better (eg faster/less bugs/more features) that using OS 3.x
yes, but where are the people ready to help with that?
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Old 04 July 2014, 15:02   #69
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what concerns "shitty community" comment it may not be the best way to react, but statements like that tend to go off in the heat of discussion and are difficult to back off. so since this is something im rater accustomed to, id lake to say that i dont feel offended, and would pledge that if gunnar was in fact restricted, to lift that measure.
I gave Gunnar a chance to rethink that statement. Sadly he chose to not take it back and apologize. The ban will not be lifted.
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Old 04 July 2014, 15:10   #70
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yes, but where are the people ready to help with that?
Nowhere I'm afraid. It would help the scene but that doesn't mean it will actually happen
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Old 04 July 2014, 15:56   #71
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yes, but where are the people ready to help with that?
Yeah I agree, AROS is definitely fantastic and I for one would welcome a lot more work there than in hardware. I think it's the step forward.
It's totally possible to make an AROS with 100% transparent classic Amiga compatibility, and it would run on any off the shelf computer. It's just how it should be nowadays. If you want to feel of the classic Amiga, you get a classic Amiga. Anything else, it's 2014, and we can work it out in many ways, not all of them necessarily hardware.
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Old 04 July 2014, 16:01   #72
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The only way I would consider using AROS instead of a real Amiga is if someone designed a PCI card with an Amiga chipset on it in FPGA form so AROS could use Amiga hardware instead of a software emulation. That would be cool.
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Old 04 July 2014, 16:07   #73
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this is offtopic here, but i beg to differ. aros is just what it is: aros. it will not be more or less amiga if it runs on this or that. i will still be aros. but aros can run on amiga and is there binary compatible to most of the genuine system and applications, i dont know of any other system that can do that natively, that means not via some foreign architecture cpu extension like ppc.
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Old 04 July 2014, 16:27   #74
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The only way I would consider using AROS instead of a real Amiga is if someone designed a PCI card with an Amiga chipset on it in FPGA form so AROS could use Amiga hardware instead of a software emulation. That would be cool.
You propably mean AROS on X86/X64 and using a custom PCI card instead of the graphic chip?

I cannot speak for others but for me it was always logical when you have limited resources than concentrate them on necessary areas with most priority and use components that are available. I replace components when neccessary and appropriate. Two examples are that I use Magellan as desktop (replacing Wanderer), Zune is replaced by MUI38 and to view Amigaguides I have included a software (datatypes has a error that was removed and later returned). So I do what is necessary to get the most I can. Original is of course the backbone like intuition, gadtools, CybergraphX 3 for RTG, AHI and then there are many components added. So for me priority always was to get best possible Amiga-environment. That is not possible on the other AROS branches so for classic fans AROS 68k is the only realistic option.
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Old 04 July 2014, 18:02   #75
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The only way I would consider using AROS instead of a real Amiga is if someone designed a PCI card with an Amiga chipset on it in FPGA form so AROS could use Amiga hardware instead of a software emulation. That would be cool.
The FPGA would have a reproduction of the chips anyway, why not do it in software? WinUAE is a great emulation. I need nothing but that.
People here know their stuff, so if someone can tell me what the advantage would be to have the Amiga hardware in an FPGA in a card in a computer versus a software version running in the computer, I'll learn something new today.

Interfacing with real Amiga classic hardware is an interesting idea, I guess some sort of I/O board could be developed. But a "PCI" card is only for desktop units and would leave laptops behind. A USB "breakout box" could be more useful.
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Old 04 July 2014, 19:22   #76
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But a "PCI" card is only for desktop units and would leave laptops behind. A USB "breakout box" could be more useful.
As a laptop user I couldn't agree more.
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Old 04 July 2014, 19:48   #77
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I think banning Gunnar was unfair, and it seems to me, TCD, that you just dislike Gunnar and have been sitting ready at the guns, looking for any excuse to ban him. I see nothing in the rules about mild swearing and expressing your disappointment.

When I read through the threads Gunnar has been posting in, I see TCD, Britelite, Meynaf, Stingray etc. antagonizing him, when all he's trying is to do something good for Amiga. No wonder he says the community has a shitty attitude. I think the Amiga community is shitty sometimes too, will I be getting a ban now as well?

The only admin I would trust to use his full judgement and discretion before moderating or banning is Cody Jarrett, while the other admins seem to be just looking for opportunities to assert themselves from time to time. This kind of aggressive moderation only serves to make users have to look over their shoulders when posting, and it's damaging to the forum.
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Old 04 July 2014, 19:55   #78
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There you go again, with that condescending tone.

I am an user. Part of the wonderful Amiga community (especially EAB, which rocks so hard!), which has been recently berated.

You don't have to be a martyr to be part of it - nor a programmer, a hardware engineer or whatever. So no need to feel so self-entitled.
We are just hobbists. We do this because we like doing it. And without the users the Amiga community would be a ghost town.

That said, I'll go back to my enjoying the community without having you expecting me to contribute something before being able to simply express my thoughts - thank you very much.
Indeed. Thanks for being a user and therefore keeping the Amiga platform alive.
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Old 04 July 2014, 19:57   #79
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@Leffmann
You have your opinion and I have mine Leffmann. Gunnar calling the community shitty that he's right now asking for an opinion is quite uncalled for in my opinion. I asked him to take that statement back as I clearly saw that it was a heated reaction to wawa's comment. He didn't and quite frankly didn't take my request seriously. I think you'd react in a different, more mature way if I'd ask you to reconsider what you wrote.
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Old 04 July 2014, 20:03   #80
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Yes we do, and Gunnar has his opinion, which was perfectly appropriate given how you guys have been going at him in his threads. You have no right to ask him to retract it or ban him if he doesn't. Nothing he said warranted a ban. You're the one doing wrong here, not him.
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