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Old 25 June 2014, 06:50   #61
NovaCoder
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Originally Posted by Samurai_Crow View Post
Correct. In fact, more software will run on an '020 than an '060 due to the missing 32-bit by 32-bit multiply opcode in the '060.
In fact lots of AGA games are compiled for plain old 68000, this is because they were just lazy ports of existing OCS/ECS games

Heck, even most of OS 3.9 seems to have been compiled for plain 68000
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Old 25 June 2014, 06:51   #62
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That is a shame because then you can;'t run 060 demos. It'd be best to be 060 compatible.
I don't see the reason to have a lightning fast 000, most modern demoscene activity is around the 060.
The cut down Phoenix fpga CPU lacked full 68020 support in the Vampire 600 accelerator. The full Apollo CPU in a Cyclone V has plenty of room for 68020 compatibility. Most 68060 demos should run but a few use an FPU which the Apollo currently lacks. A few will fail because of timing related to the increased speed .

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Correct. In fact, more software will run on an '020 than an '060 due to the missing 32-bit by 32-bit multiply opcode in the '060.
Yes, Apollo has the potential to be more compatible with the 68020 ISA by bringing back the not uncommon 32x32=64 integer instructions. The 68060 uses the 68020 ISA but needs software support. The 68060 did not add any new integer instructions.
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Old 25 June 2014, 08:42   #63
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Most 68060 demos should run but a few use an FPU which the Apollo currently lacks..
Matt, we have a full 80bit 68K compatible FPU.
But its not enabled in the Vampire project.
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Old 25 June 2014, 09:17   #64
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Definitely interested. I have at least one of everything that CBM ever made, dating back to the PET2001. So, I have plenty of Amigas for testing.
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Old 25 June 2014, 09:25   #65
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Matt, we have a full 80bit 68K compatible FPU.
But its not enabled in the Vampire project.
What percentage complete is it (compared to the 68060 FPU)? What percentage tested is it? Will the new accelerators be delivered with a working FPU? I would rather under promise and over deliver. The new accelerator offers huge potential for a reasonable price but it's going to take time to get everything working and working well.
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Old 25 June 2014, 09:58   #66
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What percentage complete is it (compared to the 68060 FPU)?
Mathematical 100%

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What percentage tested is it?
Mathematical 100%
Integration with Phoenix 0%

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Will the new accelerators be delivered with a working FPU? I would rather under promise and over deliver. The new accelerator offers huge potential for a reasonable price but it's going to take time to get everything working and working well.
You are right - and we are not promising anything here.
This thread is not an official announcement.

This thread is a discussion of people talking about our project.
I did not start this thread, I only came here to answer some questions.
An official announcement with features will come when its time.

This thread is technically correct about what is happening.
The hardware features of the new card are correctly listed here.
Its also technically correct that we have a full 80 bit FPU.
Its technically also correct that the FPU is fully pipelined,
and compared to an 68060 it reaches around 300Mhz 68060 performance.
The bulk work of the FPU is done. We spend two years developing it.
It still needs to be integrated in the changed Phoenix pipeline.
But this work is much smaller compared to the main development of the FPU.

What soft-features will be integrated in the product will be announced when its time.

Whether the FPU will be in or whether we use the FPU space for somethign else will have to be seen.
Or maybe the FPU will only be released as upgrade to people who send us a selfie video singing "Only-AMIGA"?
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Old 25 June 2014, 11:13   #67
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Will be possible to upgrade more RAM? I mean with 060@300 MHz finally there could be ported web browsers like Netsurf, OWB, Timerwolf, ... which lack of CPU currently so porting does not have sence now.

RTG under P96 will be nice, but what about Warp3D? No plans then? ;o)
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Old 25 June 2014, 11:17   #68
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Will be possible to upgrade more RAM?
The CPU module has 128MB DDR3 memory.
Is 128 MB fastmem not enough for Netsurf and friends?

Anyway the system is modular. The CPU module can be exchanged.
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Old 25 June 2014, 11:35   #69
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The CPU module has 128MB DDR3 memory.
Is 128 MB fastmem not enough for Netsurf and friends?

Anyway the system is modular. The CPU module can be exchanged.
I suppose that for efficient multi-tabbed browsing on heavy websites (well, pretty much almost any decent website nowadays is an heavy one for the Amiga browsers ) you'd need to go with 512MB.

Is there a way to add more memory? DDR3 slot, maybe?
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Old 25 June 2014, 12:08   #70
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NetSurf needs only 32MB for most amiga websites.
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Old 25 June 2014, 12:27   #71
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NetSurf needs only 32MB for most amiga websites.
Indeed, but I suppose that with a 300MHz kinda-020 full HTML5 support will finally be possible, and in that case people will want to do more than just go on Amiga-optimized websites, maybe do a bit of tabbed browsing too.

Surfing Facebook for example should be a big-hit on RAM because of all the pics and HTML5-stuffs going on.
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Old 25 June 2014, 13:20   #72
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This is starting to sound like a lot of fun... I shall be crossing my fingers in the hope that it comes to pass
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Old 25 June 2014, 13:59   #73
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The CPU module has 128MB DDR3 memory.
Is 128 MB fastmem not enough for Netsurf and friends?

Anyway the system is modular. The CPU module can be exchanged.
it is a far cry, but for instance mesa on aros68k will not start without 256mb available.
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Old 26 June 2014, 03:08   #74
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Guys, what about the chipmem? With only 512kb of chipmem my a500 will be still unusable with this accelerator card (running whdload games from workbench for example).
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Old 26 June 2014, 03:52   #75
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it is a far cry, but for instance mesa on aros68k will not start without 256mb available.
AROS needs to become more efficient. Wazp3D and and StormMesa can use software 3D in 128MB with no problem. The original target was 64MB of fast memory but I pushed for 128MB. I think it's the right amount for affordable accelerators. High end accelerators and standalone boards should get more memory.

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Guys, what about the chipmem? With only 512kb of chipmem my a500 will be still unusable with this accelerator card (running whdload games from workbench for example).
Using RTG does not need any chip memory. It's also possible to have AGA/SAGA emulation in the card (HDMI/DVI output only) with >2MB of chip memory. There are no guarantees that this will happen though.
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Old 26 June 2014, 12:26   #76
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If it's a) supported properly b) has decent compatability and c) is reasonably priced (A1200 060 accelerators going for 450+, seriously?) then I'm in.
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Old 26 June 2014, 12:37   #77
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Using RTG does not need any chip memory.
WHDLoad games don't use RTG.
Please don't make this into something that only "next gen" Amiga stuff runs on.
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Old 26 June 2014, 13:29   #78
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(A1200 060 accelerators going for 450+, seriously?)
Or double that for a desktop one, I have no idea why they sell for so much, they're for sale on a daily basis so obviously aren't rare.
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Old 26 June 2014, 14:11   #79
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Or double that for a desktop one, I have no idea why they sell for so much, they're for sale on a daily basis so obviously aren't rare.
Probably because there are a lot of people with HUGE pockets buying Amiga stuff.

I've seen some people buying something like 3000-4000 eur of equipment at once on a whim with no sweat

Mind you, if no one was buying that stuff at those ridicolous prices, the sellers would have to lower their prices dramatically.

If the new Apollo FPGA will really bring cheap 060-like performance for a fraction of the price, you can expect those mad prices to be slashed in half in just a few months
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Old 26 June 2014, 14:14   #80
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I actually don't think it's got anything to do with 'wealth', spending a few hundred quid on computer equipment is within the means of 90% of people these days, it's more down to hype and/or stupidity in my opinion. You don't see old P133 processors selling for hundreds of pounds.
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